“I don’t mind the canon, because it supplies a gateway into good cinema, or at least it did for me when I was younger. However I agree that it is very important to wander out of the canon much more than every once in awhile.”
This should be posted at the top of TSPDT, and The Auteurs :)
“I wonder how many really good movies are there? If we exclude all blockbusters but include all worthwhile films from really good directors? 1500? 3000?”
Millions.
Billions of movies have been produced. 90% of everything is crap (Sturgeon’s Law). That leaves 10% of the billions remaining. Ergo, millions of movies are just spiffy.
If we want to pretend such things can be quantified.
—PolarisDiB
there is a way…as Mike said…it’s the consensus that’s baffling me, not the canon necessarily…..it’s one thing for some people to want to see the full Godard or Bunuel films but why shouldn’t the majority of Peckinpah, Angelopoulos or Tsai (names which were excluded) works be treated the same way? critical ignorance to begin with?
hence lesser availability to more films?
" If we exclude all blockbusters but include all worthwhile films from really good directors? 1500? 3000?”"
It partly depends on how much your while is worth to you.
“he anger some feel comes from the attempt to narrow down the countless achievements of cinema into 1000 of the best which, by having Terminator and Tarkovsky coexist, the list fails to do”
Don’t you think to feel anger about it is a little bit childish? And silly as Drew says.
Terminator and Kill Bill (films that I like too much, especially Kill Bill) are in the list because 2041 people (basicly cinephiles with voice) think they are important in history of cinema. I think it too (they are iconic… they are part of fine pop culture). Nothing less nothing more: Just that.
Its a sad cycle. But there are still ways to see the films and still a few companies (say what you will about Criterion’s picks of Ben Button and Armageddon, they have supplied us with a ton of incredible films), so I see no point in complaining.
Polaris pretty much nailed it: millions….and we may not see not even half a million but at least we should be optimistic that under all this pile of multi-market, multiplex promotion, rarities in need to be discovered from around the world are waiting for us in the afterlife :P
“Don’t you think to feel anger about it is a little bit childish? And silly as Drew says.
Terminator and Kill Bill (films that I like too much, especially Kill Bill) are in the list because 2041 people (basicly cinephiles with voice) think they are important in history of cinema. I think it too (they are iconic… they are part of fine pop culture). Nothing less nothing more: Just that."
No, I think it’s healthy and mature to feel anger over the state of criticism and journalism. It’s an adult anger, no gnashing of teeth here.
Is the list about these works importance to pop culture? In that case, I will save my anger for something else.
I wouldn’t be fully satisfied with any list other than my own, and I think it is the same for everyone.
That’s all I’m saying. No other list will ever please you.
It’s not only about they are icons of pop culture I’m sure. But I personally like that aspect of that films. I think pop culture is important you know. But as always that’s just my opinion.
Mature anger. Ok. I still think it’s not big deal nor something to worry about
Well, if you see all 100o I’ve no doubt you’ll seen many excellent films and a few no so excellent films, which is the same as any list. I have nothing special against this list.
1000
“This is the canon”
[DREW] maybe it’s the problem with any canon, but there are a lot of great films in it that can be really appreciated if you have seen some lesser-known films in the same gander or by the same author.
For example, there is nothing on the list between 1903 (Voyage to the Moon) and 1915 (Birth of a Nation), as if nothing had happened between those two years. But it is evident that EVERYTHING has happened during this period in France, in Italy, in America, in other countries too. The problem is that if you put in Cabiria, Feuillade’s Fantomas and Judeux, Griffith’s Biograph shorts — the list would become enormous.
The food here is terrible. And such small portions!
Only five or so Hitch’s films are in the 1000 (some of my favorites are not in there). But really, about 60 – 70% of his 52 films are worthwhile (a guesstimate). You can’t put them all in, and you can’t miss them.
So I guess that if you are really a fan of cyberpunk and want to really appreciate Terminator you got to have your own canon of 1000. Almadovar would require a different one. I guess half of it would be different from a cyberpunk top one thousand. David Lynch? You’ll probably have to unite as many canons as possible to come to Mulholland Dr…
Glad to see Spielberg’s oeuvre making more appearances. A.I. and RYAN may have their detractors – each and every film has them – but they were sorely missing in previous lists.
TSPDT’s top 1000 – January 2011
Few and unexciting changes in the ranking of films and directors. I believe that Bill Georgaris’ hard work deserves better ballots but it seems that our beloved/hated critics are incredibly lazy and predictable (for example Mike Sragow’s 115 favorite films looks like my own list 10 years ago, before DVD and Internet let me know the hidden gems previously shown at festivals or film archives only).
They are running into the problem that many of the ballots used to compile the data are old, so the weight of them will give a big advantage to early films and films that have been well liked for a long time which is, in part, why the list seems so obvious I suppose.
The USA has most of the climbers in the top 100 directors. I take this as a sign TSPDT is moving in the wrong direction
More people involved, more lists, more emphasis on commonality means more Americans I suppose since US films are the global currency in the market. I get the feeling though that the new century, will lead to a wider range of selections once enough voters can overcome the weighting holding the 2000s back. But then again, maybe I’m just being an optimist and they’ll keep adding more Dark Knights and Lord of the Rings type stuff instead, cause god knows blockbuster action films need more love.
I’m quoting Kenji:
The USA has most of the climbers in the top 100 directors. I take this as a sign TSPDT is moving in the wrong direction
Well, really, I guess we should be worrying less about the TSPDT and more about getting our own house in order since I can’t help but notice Mubi’s own “most popular” film list is becoming more predictably one of “men doing manly men things” in a way that is not really representative of any sort of diversity. There is a pull to certain kinds of films that is hard to overcome particularly given who is generally drawn to treating movies as important.
I don’t think we can do much about the most popular film list on a site with so many users. It was always bound to look like lots of other sites’ with Hollywood dominating
Yeah, I know, and that will be a problem for TSPDT as they add more and more lists too, but I figured if I’m going to bitch about something I might as well start with the area I hang out in first. It’s only fair after all.
bah! some people should stop looking at this list too often and look at their other one. that’s much more fun…….
^
^ Men doing manly things? Pfff, aren’t men rulers of this universe, of course they’re doing “manly” things, of course men AND women love these kind of stuff Greg ;)
Twodead (oops!!!), I have no problem with that other list’s content inasmuch with its title: how are Alien 3 and Prince of Tides considered “obscure”?
Hey, i didn’t even know about that other list! I haven’t looked at the site for a while since it wasn’t saying much we didn’t already know.
Alien 3 I don’t mind too much, but The Bounty? The Mel Gibson version of The Bounty? Hmm, odd would be the word for this list I think, no, wait, Megaforce is on the list too, all is right with the world after all, or something…it is a pretty fun list at that…But Greg, TSPDT need to concentrate more now on obtaining selections by properly informed people with a genuine interest in world cinema- bypassing other sources whose lists are flawed. We could contact Sight & Sound to press for a better geographical spread of participants in their next major poll in 2012, which is likely to be significant in the TSPDT rankings
“it is a pretty fun list at that… "
Sure Greg, it’s OK to think that both The Bounty and Alexander the Great by Theo are equally obscure films ;)
I think The Bounty might fall under their “unloved” part of the definition…it does for me at least…
Well,these films are probably the “underrated” ones.But,if we overlook some choices,the list is pretty interesting.I mean,I didn’t even know many directors on this list.A lot of staff there to check,at least for me.And no “cannon”!!!
Drew.
Sure, but unfortunately there is no way to change it.
I don’t mind the canon, because it supplies a gateway into good cinema, or at least it did for me when I was younger. However I agree that it is very important to wander out of the canon much more than every once in awhile.