Underrated?

Okay first off, this is not a rant, but rather a mild accessment.

I think that of the “Wilder Greats”, “The Apartment” ranks the lowest according to the wide scaled consensus. Personally, I think it’s the best of them, but I find people and lists from the likes of the American Film Institute or www.imdb.com with differing opinions. By the “Wilder Greats” I mean “Sunset Boulevard”, “Some Like it Hot”, and “Double Indemnity”; though I do rank “Sabrina”, “Love in the Afternoon”, and “Ace in the Hole” as worthy mentions (I actually like “Sabrina” more than “Some Like It Hot” just like I think “Ace in the Hole” is better than “Double Indemnity”). But anyway, is it just me? Thoughts?

only wilder film I have seen is ace in the hole

FOSHOOOOOKLOOMP!!

Don’t forget The Lost Weekend.

Peter – As a general feeling, I think your right to say that The Apartment ranks lower in critical consensus. There’s also a chance that it is his best. Wilder has a weird spell over me where my favorite movie of his is usually whatever one I’ve seen last. But, since Double Indemnity and The Apartment aren’t to comparable, I don’t see this as a problem.

The Apartment probably loses something by not being quite as historically important as Double Indemnity and for not being a clever insiders story like Sunset Blvd. and for not having Marylin Monroe like Some Like it Hot. However, The Apartment is just as clever as any of those movies, and far more moving.

I agree that the comparability between the two films are a little sparse, but films will be films right? And I just think from sheer execution and emotional resonance, “The Apartment” is Wilder’s best, but that’s certainly not taking anything away from “Double Indemnity”, which was nearly flawless, but the characters themselves were outright despicable,—then again it is a film noir where hardboiled characters and stories rule (and Raymond Chandler penned it). But I do think “Some Like it Hot” is a little overrated,—that’s just me though.

The Apartment (easily) made my list on a recent Desert Island thread.
other fave Wilders.
Double Indemnity (1944)
Sunset Blvd. (1950)
Some Like It Hot (1959)
The Lost Weekend (1945)
Five Graves to Cairo (1943)

I really liked Sunset Blvd. and I don’t find The Apartment that great. So The Apartment becomes overrated for me. But you like The Apartment a lot and maybe the other of Wilder’s “greats” relatively less, so The Apartment betcomes underrated for you. I think the words “overrated” and “underrated” are virtually meaningless outside of a personal context.

I’ve always considered The Apartment to be my favorite Wilder film but I think a lot of people share that opinion. I would hardly call it underrated. The Fortune Cookie is underrated. Ace in the Hole used to be underrated until the criterion reissue. Some Like it Hot is overrated.

I don’t know how you could call The Apartment underrated since I see it pop up on lots of people’s lists and Wilder is such a popular director. Remember, it won Best Picture in 1960 (the same year Psycho came out) so I can hardly call the film under appreciated. I personally prefer it over Some Like It Hot, which is the most obvious Wilder film you could compare The Apartment to (at least in terms of critical acclaim). But regardless, both films are exceptional works and let me also mention Witness for the Prosecution, another Wilder film that ranks among his best.

It totally slipped my mind that “The Apartment” won Best Picture in 1960. However, that doesn’t necessarily nullify the fact that many people will pick other “greats” over “The Apartment”.

And to the Law, I’m not saying it’s underappreciated or underrated. I’m merely asking whether it is. Hence the question mark. We have to remember if a survey asked people which film (“Sunset Boulevard” and “The Apartment”) is more aesthetically powerful and influential, more people would point to “Sunset Boulevard” over “The Apartment”.

i also feel “some like it hot” is overrated. i feel the same for “the apartment”.

count me among those that feel wilder’s noirs are his best work. granted, i havent seen all of his later films. hes a director ill continue to catch up with as i work through his catalogue, eventually.

If you want to talk about an underrated Wilder film, talk about The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes.

Billy Wilder films ranked on They Shoot Pictures’ 1000 greatest films list, the most comprehensive compendium of critic lists there is:

22 Some Like it Hot
29 Sunset Blvd.
55 Apartment, The
94 Double Indemnity
580 Ace in the Hole
796 Private Life of Sherlock Holmes, The
807 Avanti!
971 One, Two, Three

So there’s no way the 55th ranked film of all time is underrated. However, I think the argument can be made that Wilder is wildly overrated.

then make that argument. why?

I’d probably choose Double Indemnity as the best Wilder film, but I really like The Apartment. Personally, I like it more than films like Sunset Boulevard, which I didn’t care for or understand the hype, and Some Like It Hot, which I think it totally overrated. There is some great dialogue in the film, this film does not hold up well over time, imo. The comedy based on drag may have been funny back then, but now it’s just lame. I really would be surprised if modern audiences would really get into that—then again, maybe I just don’t find that kind of humor very appealing. (Loved Tootsie though, and I though Hoffman was utterly believable as a woman). The acting is pretty crappy, too. Monroe is definitely Hot—and I like it Hot—but she doesn’t make this one of the great comedies of all-time.

I also want to back on Fredo on Witness for the Prosecution. I love courtroom dramas and this is one of the best I’ve seen. Charles Laughton is an unbelievable and improbably lead (well, not just in this film…).

It’d be interesting to hear an argument against Wilder. But if it’s based on his dialogue, I’ll out of here because the guy was great in that regard.

One, Two, Three might be the most underrated Wilder film. Sorry Neil’s brother, The Private LIfe of Sherlock Holmes did not do it for me. But, then again, Holmes never does it for me. Maybe if Criterion got One, Two, Three, it would begin to get the attention it deserves. That’s what happened with Ace in the Hole, you know.

I didn’t care for Sherlock either. One, Two, Three was interesting, but just didn’t work completely for me. (Unfortunately, I can’t remember the specifics.) I want to see Ace.

The Apartment is OK, with some good scenes such as Lemmon in the bar at Christmas time, but is ultimately defeated by its moralizing and cloying sentimentality at the end. Some Like it Hot has it beat off the map. Now that is a perfect film, and anyone disagreeing is underrating it!

Wilder is a peculiar one. Can’t quite put my finger on it, but to me he seems both overrated in general and yet maybe not entirely appreciated for all that he was. (If that makes any sense)
His stature as an AFI-ranking successful American filmmaker of the studio-era is so cemented that it’s easy to overlook how QUIRKY he was. Maybe it’s my age (late-20s), but that’s been my experience with discovering his films anyway. (And of course he was actually a German immigrant who sparred with studio censors CONSTANTLY).
I’d only seen Some Like It Hot when I went to see The Apartment for the first time, and I was totally blown away by how much raw heart it had. My impression might have been somewhat colored by a nice quote I read before seeing the movie where Wilder described a scenario of “the man who goes to sleep alone each night in a bed still warm from two lovers”, but I agree with Peter that in terms of emotional resonance, The Apartment is probably his strongest film.
My FAVORITE of his is a toss-up between The Apartment or Sunset Blvd, maybe because they’re among the only ones I feel I can approach on a personal level and get involved in. Many others of his I feel too distanced from.
It does seem silly to talk about UNDER-rated Wilder films cause he IS so famous, but if I HAD to pick one I might second Nathan and go with One, Two, Three. That is one goofy and frenetic (and LOUD) movie! Cagney must have been hoarse at the end of every day on the set! I liked Private Life too, it has a strange spell. I’m sure I’ll get told off, but I think Some Like It Hot and Ace In The Hole (Criterion approved or not) are both over-rated.

There seems to be a backlash against Some Like it Hot due to its placement in the top spot on the AFI’s funniest comedies list. This is understandable, comedy is one of the most subjective genres. I was exposed to it early, and still hold it near to my heart.
Even closer to my heart, is Wilder’s The Apartment, my all time favorite film. I agree that it has remarkable emotional resonance, even today, and it feature persormances that never step wrong. If you were to ask me, no one hits a bum note in the entire production. I wouldn’t describe it as under-rated, due to its numerous rankings and awards, yet it is certainly not discussed nearly enough. I’ve had to go through a month of reading articles lauding the 50th anniversary of Hitchcock’s Psycho, and have yet to discover one celebrating The Apartment’s milestone. Wilder may have walked away with the Oscar gold, but Hitchcock still gets all the ink.
I think that scenario is also emblematic of Wilder’s place in cinema history and the discussion of classic Hollywood. In a sense, he is the invisible auteur. Allow me to explain. The films of artists like Ford, Hitchcock, and Welles are so identified with certain authorial touches and hallmarks that they become sort of embalmed in their own signifigance. That is not to say that they are worse off, merely that one views a Ford film with a distinct idea of the various ways its a Ford film (stunning vistas, etc.) With Wilder, the touches are not as obvious, in fact they are more tonal than stylistic. As a result, Wilder’s films are more susceptible to being admired without everyone remembering the name Billy Wilder. The films work so well, that to a certain extenet, they are taken for granted.
Finally, it is important to consider that Wilder began as a screenwriter, and is one of the first people to write and direct with legendary results for an exteneded period. As such, he is primarily a storyteller in the sense of story, while most other legendary directors are storytellers from a visual sense.

(My apologies for the length, I feel rather like the man behind Woody Allen in the movie line in Annie Hall.)

The Apartment is amazing. Maybe the best Wilder. :D

Savvy