How many on here have seen Zeitgeist and what do you guys think of it?
Poorly made film.
Whether you agree or disagree with what he’s saying, it’s not a well-made documentary. And the excuse “he didn’t have a budget” is no excuse at all. It’s basically a dude standing on a soapbox screaming at the horrors of the world to anyone who’ll listen. I found it’s lack of creativity difficult to sit through.
I agree with you, and I also think it was rather manipulative, but that doesn’t discredit the information in the film. And most of it is true.
Most of it is bullshit. From Wikipedia:
“Senior lecturer in Ancient History Chris Forbes of Macquarie University has severely criticized Part I of the movie as having no basis in serious scholarship or ancient sources, relying on amateur sources that “borrow ideas from each other, and who recycle the same silly stuff” and “not a single serious source” can be found in official reference lists attached to the movie. Of the film he says “It is extraordinary how many claims it makes which are simply not true.”
Forbes notes that Ra, not Horus, is the Egyptian sun god, and that there is no evidence in Egyptian sources saying that Horus’ mother Isis was a virgin. Similarly, neither Krishna (the eighth son), Dionysus (whose mother had slept with Zeus) nor Attis were ever supposed born of virgins. He points out that the pun between “son” and “sun” does not work in either Latin, Ancient Egyptian, or Greek, and therefore no such misunderstanding would occur; that the December 25 birth is not part of any of the myths—including that of Jesus, for whom Christmas Day was appointed as a festival day in open knowledge that the real date was not known."
I know citing Wikipedia isn’t too professional, but it’s more than Zeitgeist ever does.
Do you know the definition of most? That"s part one of 7 if you include both movies. And regardless, religion is an institution that we need to rid our selves of anyway, that most definitely had it’s roots in the faiths mentioned in the movie.
If I may also quote wikipedia it distinctly says what exactly?
People always criticize the first part but seem to disregard the rest of it. What do you guys think about the rest of the movie and the venus project.
auteurism is the new christianity. let us have our faith, damn you.
Well, to the 9/11 truth stuff. The idea that the maybe the most incompetent regime probably in American history would be able to pull off such an evil act, with no one in the Government leaking the information, is hard to believe. This is an administration which did almost nothing successfully, yet they manage this?
What really makes me angry about the 9/11 truth movement is that draws attention away from the real crimes of the Bush administration. There are probably over a million dead due to the well-reported, undeniable reality of an illegal war. But the three thousand people in the WTC were rich white folks, so it’s their deaths that were the real crime, right?
I can’t remember much of the third part, something about the Government wanting to put chips in all of us so if we misbehave they can shut us down. From what I remember the source of this information was an anonymous caller on the Alex Jones show.
I’m someone that believes in stuff that most people would call crazy, but I find the reasons for believing we’re being controlled by a secret elite of evil-doers to be as credible as Bush & Co.’s case for war.
I haven’t seen the film. Though Matt Dillahunty of “The Athiest Experience” remarked that it was a “crappy film that appeals to people who don’t want to think critically.”
Whatever it can say say about the relationship between Jesus and the other gods of the time period has already been stated in Brian Flemming’s The God Who Wasn’t There, only with more credible sources:
The Venus Project is a cult that talks about ‘social design’ and ‘order’. It is vague, but there is enough of a tinge of collectivist, left dogma in it to throw up a red flag for me. I got into a few debates on their forums about it and was basically lambasted with incoherency until I quit trying to use logic to reason with them. Cult was the only word I could come up with to describe TVP.
I remember when someone got me to watch Zeitgeist for the first time. I had no idea what it was about. I put it on and fell asleep with them talking about religion and woke up with them talking about 911. I was very confused. “How the hell did they get onto that subject?” Sometime after the second one came out I watch that one and the first one again shortly after.
What to say about the films? They got a few truths in places to draw people in and to legitimize there clams then they piled a bunch of BS on top. The guy that made it has his own agenda, the conclusion to the second film, which is completely insane by the way. A lot of things, from the first film at least, are just taken from other documentary’s.
I am agnostic so I’m not religious. I didn’t find the religious stuff insulting at all, just incorrect. As far as the 911 issue goes, I’ll just put it this way. I trust the government as far as I can throw them, and that’s not very far cause they are pretty big(both in size and number of fat people). I am an anarcho-capitalist. I found out pretty early in life that the two party system is BS. The Republican’s trust the government with nothing, but when is come to war we should blindly follow without asking questions. The Democrats while usually against war are for the government controlling pretty much every other aspect of our lives. I would hope the US government would have nothing to do with things like 911, however history shows things like that are common (check out why the Nazi’s invaded Poland, the “Mukden Incident” and what happened to Mosaddeq). Thing’s I think I know about 911. Information about an impending attack on the US going as far back as the Clinton years. The Bush administration being told in several different way’s about an impending attack on US soil. Having training to deal with a very similar event taking place at the exact same time as the actual event(that caused a shit tone of confusion). Dick taking control of NORAD. Bin Laden was a CIA asset to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan.
Does all this add up to a self inflicted wound. NO. What it means is we should ask question’s(Question everything, especially government.). This could have just been a huge case of uber in-competence. Either way we need to make some big changes, and people in our government should be punished.
The RFID thing you are talking about, I think is the guy that did “America: Freedom to Fascism” . (sorry I forget his name) He say’s that one of the Rockefeller’s told him about it or something. Now that I think about it; the clip in Zeitgeist was taken directly from Freedom to Fascism. Although I can not verify whether what that man said is true or completely fabricated I can tell you this, the RFID is very much real. What he say’s is plausibly(tracking people, money transference, etc.) but we are a long way off before the general population starts allowing the government to implant micro-chips under there skin.
That’s just my view on the subject. Sorry for the long rant.
The American government did it man….Dick Cheney was on the 59th floor of tower 1 with Jesus and Sarah Palin when it happened. I saw it. Well I didn’t see it but that oracle from the past saw it what’s his name? Confucius, man. No wait Nostradamus, yeah thats it.
Just watch one day you’re gonna wake up and your internal organs are gonna be like video cameras and theres nothing you can do about it man, they GOT you. WAKE UP EVERYONE, NEW WORLD ORDER 2012 IT’S ALL HAPPENING.
Dear Conspiracy Theorists,
If you know about it, it didn’t happen. I promise.
Love, Sane Person
P.S. You can delete your PDF of the anarchists cookbook now. We both know you’re never going to get the materials to make that thermite pipe bomb.
You people who call your self sane are the most brainwashed of us all. Take a step back and look at the entire system. It starts when you are kids and we are bombarded with media and religion and school, all of these are institutions of ignorance and misinformation. Hell, your parents, for the most part, were brought up the same way. The media and schools are all indirectly controlled by the same people, this keeps most people from finding out anything they don’t want them to know. How can we spend 929 billion dollars (since 2001, costofwar.com) yet only 68 billion dollars a year on education. That’s almost twice as much on an unnecessary and illegal war, than on education per year. HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? To find out more about the war I recommend reading “america’s war on terrorism” (http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14816). Also does a central banking system make any sense? NO. One of the main causes of the American revolution was getting away from the central banking system. Unfortunately the American bankers managed to get the federal reserve act passed through congress. Our government is run by corrupt politicians who no longer have the ability to affect change on any meaningful level. Not even Ron Paul can get much done. We shouldn’t be going to and relying on politicians anyways to solve our problems, because politicians are greedy idiots who wouldn’t know what to do in the first place. I recommend reading atgpress.com under the informer for more information on the scam.
As far as the Venus project is concerned, they are not saying it is the best system, the only system, or even that good of a system, but the thing is it is the most logical proposal I have heard as far as a social system is concerned. At the very least THEY OFFER A DECENT ALTERNATIVE. These aren’t people with an agenda. If you watch the interviews they aren’t disingenuous. They are concerned for the well being of the human race and the planet earth and are at the very least trying to make some damn progress, something that EVERYONE should be concerned with. Only a huge amount of people are going to be able to affect any change in our society and we need more people who recognize that the system is broken, flawed, corrupt, evil, murderous, stagnate, and that are working on alternative solutions that allow for true freedom of our race. as long as the global banks, oil companies, defense contractors, energy companies, and insurance companies continue to control and monopolize 90% of the “free market,” then we are all slaves.
And if you want some real proof, then try getting a bill that would be beneficial for the public and bad for the banks, or energy companies passed through congress and see what happens.
Kid A, I am sorry man, you are one of my favourite albums but I don’t think you belong on this forum. Zeitgeist is a form of bad media too, there is no absolute truth.
Never said there was but can we at least recognize that the system is extremely corrupt and we need to work on solving the problem? That"s really the only thing I’m after. I think it’s a reasonable enough request.
""…the system is broken, flawed, corrupt, evil, murderous, stagnate…"
Damn right it is. But the leap of faith you have to make to believe something like Zeitgeist is that the people who serve the system are themselves evil. Sorry, but Bush and Cheney weren’t hiding in a secret dungeon, planning 9/11 and how to turn everyone into their slaves, all the while laughing maniacally. They actually thought they were doing the right thing for the country.
The reason they were allowed to get away with the Iraq war is because many people in modern Western civilization believe in a simplistic world of good and evil. While Zeitgeist claims to be intent on bringing “the system” down, it’s still a part of this simplistic worldview that’s been the cause of so many problems. Looking for a villain is not the solution.
“Poorly made film.
Whether you agree or disagree with what he’s saying, it’s not a well-made documentary…"
Fredo said it. It doesn’t matter whether you agree or disagree with the message of the film. I happen to agree with the gist if not all the particulars of it, but this is just poor filmmaking.
I strongly believe that bush and Cheney are evil, just look at Bush and his families history in the oil business, or cheney and haliburton. They both profited greatly from the war. And so did the banks, and defence contractors, and oil contractors… look at history there can be no war without fear. Our government uses fear to manipulate the masses, and ultimately gain more control (the war on terror, homeland security, the patriot act). We can recognize this now, and try to do something, or wait and lose more of our ability to fight back.
The world might be as depressing as a Bergman film but I assure you that it is not black and white.
You disregard my entire argument.
I don’t live in the United States and I don’t believe in a black and white world, where there is a clear separation between good and evil, right and wrong.
“We can recognize this now, and try to do something, or wait and lose more of our ability to fight back.”
And we should do that by making documentaries that distort the truth, present a superficial view of reality, and use fear to manipulate peoples emotions? (OMG they’re out to get you)
The problem with the world isn’t that people are evil, it’s that they’re stupid. If you want to make a change for the better, start with educating yourself. If you spend all your time saying it’s the fault of those more powerful than you, you deny yourself whatever power you could actually possess.
Oh, and there is absolute truth, by the way. It’s just deeper than our intentions. EVERYONE has good intentions, even Bush and Cheney, I’m sorry to say. Even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing. If you can’t grasp that, you’re going to be manipulated into believing in another false war or another poorly made documentary.
Maybe there is no evil, but there sure as fuck are greedy, megalomaniac, psychopathic, power-hungry, cruel motherfuckers running the majority of governments and leading institutions in this world, churches and multinationals included.
Wanting to justify one’s own rottenness does not equate good intentions.
You don’t think hitler, bush, cheney and all of the owners of the big corporations don’t know what they’re doing, and you think they think that they are doing the right thing? You sir, are just plain stupid. Furthermore the fact that they are stupid doesn’t justify what they are doing, nor am I trying to avoid educating myself by blaming it on people more powerful than myself. Your argument is crap.
I am with Frazer here. Yes I think we are all so busy distracting ourselves and revelling in self-denial that “evil” inevitably ends up occuring. For example, marketing is just manipulation, yet we call it a euphemism (that is “marketing”) and feel oh so good about it. And the ad hominem attacks on Frazer are just unjustified.
Unjustified. You want to know something unjust? How about our court system. You get caught with marijuana, and an officer of the state charges you with possession of an illegal substance, and then prosecutors and judges of the state try you. Keep in mind that the state is a private corporation. How is this just? The state deems what your doing is wrong, catches you,and then tries you in a court where the judge and prosecutor are both paid by the state. The fact that the state has financial incentive to find you guilty makes a fair trial impossible. IT IS A SCAM. As is the rest of our government system. You don’t want to believe that we can fix it and defend the system. That is uneducated, that is narrow minded.
Sorry I don’t know nor care about getting caught with marijuana in the United States but you can sure cut out all the ad hominem attacks.
Law: And the ad hominem attacks on Frazer are just unjustified.
“Uh oh”, thinks I. “Now Kid A’s going to tear down my argument and make me look the fool!”
Kid A: Unjustified. You want to know something unjust? How about our court system.
This is probably the best response ever.
I’m not gonna involve myself in your guy’s pissing contest, but I will say that Zeitgeist is the worst and best thing to happened to alot of young-er people
The information it conveys is manipulative, biased, and at some times just incorrect. I am not agaisnt discrediting belief systems based on this or that, or opening up a new mode of thinking, but from what I remember Zeitgeist was in no way a scholarly source but an almost vent against society and its sometimes hypocritical ‘spirit of the times’
With all this, however, it did bring some people I knew to start looking behind certain ideas and accepted ideologies. This interest led them to be ultimately a little more skeptical of the world and the shit it throws at you (never a bad thing!)
Thanks for giving me and my office of mind controlled corporate slaves a real good laugh today.
I just erased a much longer, more glib and dickish comment to say the following:
Spend less time on forums and go pick up a BOOK by a real libertarian/anarchist/non-conformist like Noam Chomsky (preferably) or Howard Zinn . I’m looking at my bookshelf right now and can see “understanding power” by Chomsky, which is a great book that covers lectures and talks he gave over the past 10 years. He covers almost everything you mentioned in your last post to reasonable and (much more importantly) empirical fact checked plausibility. We’re talking 500 pages of footnotes. You’ll love him. He can’t stop talking about his infiltration of the upper class and his anecdotes about how full of shit academia is. If you’re going to waste your life with conspiracy theories at least be intelligent about it. If I can save just one well meaning activist from being a living punchline perhaps there is hope yet.
Oh and since this is a forum about film I would be remiss not linking to this:
I hope it makes sense out of context
And in case you don’t know who Chomsky is or doubt my words, here is our good friend Hugo Chavez at the UN general assembly extolling the virtues of his book “Hegemony or Survival – The Imperialist Strategy of the United States”
With that kind of endorsement you KNOW it’s good.