I’d nominate “The Killing” to our list of perfect films on the other thread. There’s not one flaw in it (well, maybe except that camera reflection in the bus station scene). As tight and compact and expressive as a film can be.
I absolutely have to agree that most of his movies are underrated, especially those that came after A Clockwork Orange. He is my favorite Artist in any medium and the best film of his continues to be his most underappreciated: Eyes Wide Shut. And I believe Stanley meant what he said, not long before he passed, as he was putting on the finishing touches of EWS, that it was his greatest work. I know he had that novella stirring within him for a few decades and he put his entire life’s experience and knowledge of lighting, composition, color, movement, sound, character development, etc…etc…to this intimate, intoxicating little story. Oh, Beauty…And then to have it met with such derision and lack of understanding, especially in re: to many of the “sophisticated” critics…Oh Well, several writers have already spoken eloquently on this subject (Michael Herr, Lee Siegel)…And we all know what happens to the reputation of his movies as the post-release hype dies down and the critical re-appraisals begin.
Barry Lyndon would definitely be my close second since the question is most underappreciated, and I would also mention The Shining. I believe it was another poster who made the point that even many of those who really love The Shining are unaware of some of its wonderful intricacies and ambiguities. In fact those might be my top three of his right there
I have to say that as a life long student, lover and teacher of cinema and its history, when trying to teach others how to ‘read’ a film, to discover subtext and meaning, and the delicate art of mise-en-scene, Kubrick is the absolute greatest to go to and Eyes Wide Shut specifically. I have broadened and changed people’s ways of viewing film just through pointing out some of the sublties of this movie.
And as a last thought, I was curious if any other fans of Stanley’s are also, like me, really into Federico Fellini and Orson Welles. The three greatest filmmakers of the twentieth century! Im sure I could find you on their message boards. Man, I cant believe Criterion did all this for the website! I already owe Criterion/Janus a huge debt of gratitude for always keeping arthouse cinema strong. Thank you all.
Everyone who says that all his films are under-appreciated is right. I’m not trying to say that his films can’t be appreciated because for many, myself included, he sits at the pantheon of film-makers and auteurs.
In terms of which film is still unappreciated to this day, I would say that Barry Lyndon is clearly that film. Eyes Wide Shut is also unappreciated, but with all his films, time is what creates the deep appreciation for his films that we don’t necessarily have after first viewing. (I’m speaking for the GENERAL PUBLIC because EWS is a great film, but I know that the majority of the public doesn’t feel that way)
The Killing.
Yes, Barry Lyndon & Eyes Wide Shut are also vastly underrated.
Yes, I must also agree with Mitchell and say that the Killing is both over-looked and under appreciated. It’s the first film Kubrick actually didn’t have a disdain for (he wanted to buy out every copy of Fear and Desire and Killer’s Kiss so that they could never been screen again).
After watching the Killing, you definitely see so much potential and talent in the young film-maker. I find the unconventional storyline and the overall execution of the film to be very unique and extremely mature considering Kubrick was 27 when he made the film.
as much as i adore barry lyndon i would have to go for eyes wide shut as being his most severely underrated gem. i only watched it myself as i picked up the deluxe box set of his work earlier this year, and it was included. were it not for that i probably wouldnt ever have seen it and my current top 20 would be lacking an important title.
on a related note has anyone seen the british documentary “stanley kubrick’s boxes”? it was shown on tv here earlier this year, and involved a journalist who was given exclusive to the boxes of all manner of things throughout his life. if i remember correctly there were 15,000 of them, taking up most of the room in his mansion. he even had a portakabin-type building to house the bloody things! it was a fascinating documentary, proving a genuine insight into the guy. the extent to which he worked on the unproduced napoleon film was explored in it, showing the years of painstaking detailed research, he even had a library full of books!
I used to believe that Kubrick was the beginning and end of all things regarding film. Way past that now. Alot of his films fall into the overrated category for me now, but I still love his little orphan Lolita. The fact that Nabokov’s novel will be eagerly read by me another 20-30 times before I die makes Kubrick’s success (in my eyes) all the more remarkable. Everyone who loves a book is either disappointed by or outright hates the movie.
Must…refrain…from…defending…Sta…
Okay, I am curious as to how you have regressed from a Kubrick appreciator to now finding his films to be overrated. I think for most people, myself including, initial reaction to Kubrick is usually somewhat sour. But as I’ve grown up and watched his films, the more I believe there are few directors, especially considering their complete body of work, that can live up to Kubrick’s work.
All of his films are invariably unique from one another, with a tremendous resume starting from The Killing, Paths of Glory, Spartacus, Dr. Strangelove, Lolita , 2001, A Clockwork Orange, Barry Lyndon, The Shining, Full Metal Jacket and Eyes Wide Shut.
I consider myself a huge Kubrick fan, but I find that just by listing these films, it’s an incredible exercise in showing how many quality films he has made.
I find with almost all of these films, you can make an argument for not liking them, but in terms of their production quality, aesthetic control and the big performances that you find in “every” one of his films, there isn’t much argument to declare them as bad films. I could see how someone could not like A Clockwork Orange, but that doesn’t take away from the very unique and stimulating aesthetic approach of the film, nor the strong performances (when Alex returns home to find the lodger with his parents). You’re talking about 4 or 5 films that are regarded as many peoples’ favorite films (mainly Dr. Strangelove, 2001, Clockwork and Barry Lyndon/The Shining).
I do agree with you that Lolita is a good film, and it’s interesting to say that Nabokov found that working on the screenplay for the film (which was greatly altered, yet Kubrick didn’t take credit on the rewrite and Nabokov was nominated for an Oscar) to be a waste of time. But after watching the film, he found the film to be a great adaptation of his work and that it encapsulated his vision of the story.
Eyes Wide Shut and Barry Lyndon
David Lee, I agree with everything you like about Kubrick – and I still like that myself and enjoy most of his flms. What I’ve come to appreciate however is that most of his work has a clinical quality to it. Emotionally it can come off more like laboratory results than great art. I suspect Kubrick was more obsessed with film craft than telling a great story and moving an audience. I am speaking in hyperbole here, but I say it as an antidote to a legion of fans who find his work to be absolute unimpeachable perfection. Its good, but it ain’t THAT good.
I wouldn’t go so far as to saying absolute unimpeachable perfection, there are no films nor film-makers of that quality.
I’m interested what you mean by clinical quality though. But yes, I would agree with you that some of his films come off as emotionally cold, or disconnected, but I should mention something I had read in some Kubrick novel I own, as he stressed the importance of staying true to the material and not giving into over-sentimentality. By the way, if you find his films lack emotion, I’d say in all of his films there is a particular scene in which emotions completely carry the scene (besides maybe Strangelove).
examples: paths of glory (end scene, which I don’t find too sentimental, but legions of people claim to)
spartacus (end scene, when she has to walk away from Spartacus)
lolita (when humbert realizes it in the end and leaves Lolita and when Charlotte Haze finally realizes what’s going on)
clockwork (when he comes back home to his parents and the lodger is staying there)
barry lyndon (the best example out of all these films)
now, i’m not trying to say that particular emotional moments in a film make the film as a whole more emotionally complex. But these are examples of scenes that you watch in a theater, and I can look around at everyone around me in the audience and find them completely locked into the film. And you know a scene is good when you hear half the audience exhale at the same time once the scene has ended.
(when asked do you distrust sentimentality)
I don’t mistrust sentiment and emotion, no. The question becomes, are you giving them something to make them a little happier, or are you putting in something that is inherently true to the material? Are people behaving the way we all really behave, or are they behaving the way we would like them to behave? I mean, the world is not as it’s presented in Frank Capra films. People love those films — which are beautifully made — but I wouldn’t describe them as a true picture of life.
in terms of you expecting him to be more obsessed with film craft than telling a great story and moving an audience, I would say that statement couldn’t be less true. in fact he always felt initial audience reaction was the true deciding factor of a film, and that subsequent critical response would always gravitate toward that audience’s initial reaction. I’m not trying to be a snob, but I definitely find that statement to be a falsehood. Reading his interviews pertaining to responsibilities as a film-maker and what draws him into stories in the first place, really opens up your eyes to his approach.
Full Metal Jacket often seems neglected in discussion about Stanley’s films.
J.R: That’s a good point, because Full Metal Jacket often skips my mind as well when I think of his body of work.
I think that the second half is somewhat forgettable, or that it at least pales in comparison to the first half of the film. I almost felt somewhat let-down because I knew it could have been better.
Hands down Eyes Wide Shut. It is his strongest piece. I adore Stanley’s work. Eyes Wide Shut showed the wisdom of self-restraint not present in his work since Dr. Strangelove.
I am Spartacus!
No I am Spartacus!
I am Spartacus!
No I am Spartacus!
In response to Guy Lee Thys’ comment, “Most of Kubrick’s films were grossly overrated.”
What paper have you been reading? If anything, Kubrick has been grossly underrated. Every film he released was slammed and treated unfairly. The only one to my knowledge that was successful was 2001, due mainly to the special effects. What HAS held true is that over time, usually about 10-20 years later, his film is regarded as another masterpiece of his collection of work. A Clockwork Orange was the face of bad publicity and ranks as one of the greatest films of all-time.
I hope the same will hold true for Eyes Wide Shut. It was marketed as a “Real Sex movie” with actual lovers Tom & Nicole. I think it’s a terrific film but wasn’t given a fair chance. Over time I believe that more people are realizing it to be a true Kubrick film and he’s proven how much creative control he had in each shot (except for the ones that were re-edited to block some not-so-graphic sex scenes).
If anyone can be of help, i’ve been on the hunt for any indication as to Godard’s appreciation of Kubrick. I was able to come across one review where he dismissed The Killing as the poor man’s Ophuls with none of the later’s vision of the world. His review of Paths of Glory seemed to intere4st him in Kubrick as a talent to keep an eye on but I’m unaware of his reception of Kubrick after that.
Let Godard be. He says too much about too many topics. He’s now untracable.
I don’t quite understand the problem here. Barry Lyndon is to me the best movie K.ever did for one simple reason it tells a story and it is a miracle of storytelling. of course all those pictures he shot, landscaping a social plague (Barry) and prolonging his agony through a constant irony, distance, “manierism”.
Eyes wide Shut seems to me way overrated. something is missing in this movie. Could it be the flesh, the body, the sound of it. I don’t know quite well. I could tell fore sure that each scene is aborted. Maybe Kubrick wanted it this way. I can’t say. But something is really missing in that movie.
I’ll look into it.
Hands down, “Eyes Wide Shut.”
This thread, while a terrific discussion, has a poor premise: Is there such thing as an underappreciated Stanley Kubrick movie? For every one of his movies, you can find someone (as this discussion proves, without looking too hard) who’d argue that it’s his “best.” Kubrick is one of the greatest directors, by any estimation, and every one of his films is, good or bad, extremely powerful and fascinating. He’s one of a kind, and well appreciated.
Eyes Wide shut seems to be the winner on here haha
My favorite is Dr. Strangelove.
Barry Lyndon, Barry Lyndon, and Barry Lyndon.
I agree with “Matt”. Unless someone here says Fear and Desire, I think all of his films are appreciated justly by the right people, and mostly all considered brilliant. As a die-hard Kubrick fan, I LOVE everything, and consider Barry Lyndon to be one of the most amazing films (visually), I have seen.
Eyes Wide Shut and Barry Lyndon.
Being a current film student, many of Kubrick’s films are a subject for study and debate. Full Metal Jacket, The Shinning and 2001 are some of the most revered films ever made. But his early films like The Killing and Paths of Glory are somewhat forgotten by the fame of classics like Dr. Strangelove or Barry Lyndon.
Defintley Eyes Wide Shut. Brilliant film. Barry Lyndon too is very under-rated.
Eyes Wide Shut is underrated for good reason. Full Metal Jacket was also a disappointing Kubrick effort.
But Lolita! A great comic American film, a near-perfection, disliked by all in its time, including Mr. Nabokov, remade by Hollywood a few years ago only to prove how good Kubrick was with this. Everything about it: the players, the writing, the cinematography … wonderful.
And not far behind, Strangelove. I watch this every four or five years and never without deep pleasure. It is the comic Kurbrick who is underrated, under-appreciated.
Eyes Wide Shut or Barry Lyndon I think are the most under appreciated.
My top 3 favorite Kubrick films used to be my least favorites of his:
Barry Lyndon
Eyes Wide Shut
The Shining
Bobby Wise
I’d nominate “The Killing” to our list of perfect films on the other thread. There’s not one flaw in it (well, maybe except that camera reflection in the bus station scene). As tight and compact and expressive as a film can be.