Ok see – you’re both saying things that I never said.
Odilon – no, I’m not trying to find out what turns women on. What I am saying is that – as I understand it, biology has invested the human male (I think it actually applies across the entire spectrum of mammals, doesn’t it?) with a strong sex drive in order to ensure the propagation of the human race. Men are made in such a way (in general) that they’re essentially always looking for a potential ‘next partner’ – and this is why female strippers and porn etc appeal to men in a much more primal way than their male counterparts appeal to women.
Forget the fact that it’s a SEXUAL drive – I’m looking at it only as a primal drive that causes males to act in a very different way than women. Men will do really stupid things for a chance at sex with a fresh partner – all kinds of crimes and immoral acts. Women generally don’t commit these kinds of acts, and especially not for a chance to get laid!
So what I’m looking for is – is there some similar biological drive that affects women but not men? I do not mean sexually – I mean any kind of drive. Something that affects women in a primal way but that does not affect men in the same way. Something that – like the male sex drive, would most likely be related to propagation of the human species and passing on of genes from one generation to the next – because what other kinds of drives can create such primal impulses in people?
Think of it this way: “__________ is to the male sex drive as chick flicks are to guy flicks”.
Ruby – I can certainly understand why this subject would make you think I’m sexist – but if you really pay attention to what I’m saying – it’s not sexist at all!! The things you’re talking about are cultural – I’mtalking about biological facts that can’t be denied or changed. No matter how equal the genders get, you’ll never find men giving birth – they simply can’t!
I did not say anywhere that women are ‘turned on’ by babies and marriage – I asked if women have a primal connection to babies that men don’t share. It’s no more sexist than saying “Do men respond more strongly to porn than women?” I know there are some nurturing men – though I’d say they’re in the minority, wouldn’t you? Or do you believe most men are just as good with babies and care about them just as much as women do? What are the statistics on men leaving their children as opposed to women leaving their children? I would be seriously amazed if they’re approximately equal. I would say the mother/child bond is something very primal and powerful, and very real – as well as something men just can’t share at the same primal level.
Is it just a cultural myth that a mother shares a special bond with her baby that no father can? Or that the relationship of a child with the mother is more important than that with the father? I always assumed these were true.
If you believe they’re NOT true – if you think men are every bit as good (in general) with babies as women and that men respond just as strongly to news reports of children being kidnapped or hurt – then I ask, what IS the equivalent? Do you believe there isn’t one (that wouldn’t make much sense – if so then how would nature balance out the male sex drive in females?) – or do you believe it’s something entirely different that I haven’t mentioned?
Or (option 3) – are you saying that even the male sex drive is a myth, and that men and women are pretty much alike in these ways?
most of that is cultural conditioning and evolution. and i don’t really see what it has to do with strip clubs. i think we all know many men use the little head to do the thinking for the big head? and probably many women would jump under a bus to save their children. so what’s your point? people are all different
anyway i’m bored with this conversation now
Finally – starting to get some actual answers!
Ok – good point tht strip clubs are about power – I know that’s true for rape – is it really true about strip clubs? Could be. Is it true about porn? Hmm…
Well, I suppose you could say the male sex drive itself is about power. Sometimes anyway. That’s really something I hadn’t heard or considered before, but could well be true. It doesn’t change anything about this conversation though. You’ve just supplied a REASON for the sex drive – that’s not really important for the purposes of my question.
“i think we all know many men use the little head to do the thinking for the big head? and probably many women would jump under a bus to save their children. so what’s your point? people are all different”
People are all different yes, of course. But when talking about patterns in nature you can’t avoid talking in generalities. These tendencies aren’t restricted only to humans – I believe most mammalianspecies share themwith us (with some exceptions). The males get all crazy in rutting season and try to kill each other, and the females incubate the young and nurture them. But even in the animal world it’s down to individuals – not every male Caribou goes crazy in rutting season etc. But still it’s the general rule in nature.
But I’m glad you finally said where you stand Ruby – it seems we’re in agreement. What’s my point – well there was no point… in spite of what I suspect you thought I was trying to say, I do NOT believe “all women should be pregnant and barefoot!”
I was honeslty just looking for the balancing factor – whatever it is that women respond to as primally as men respond to visual displays of female sexuality. I did not mean to pass judgement on either men or women – I only asked out of curiosity and meant it to remain strictly in a scientific/biologocal context, not sociological or political. I guess I should have seen where it was headed right away – but I waded in like the fool I am!
I regret that you probably hate me now Ruby – I swear I am not a misogynist or anti-feminist – I’m not from the 50’s (born in the 60’s) – but I do plead guilty to not being the brightest bulb onthe christmas tree sometimes. I do sometimes make stupid posts like I did here without understanding the likely results of what I’m doing…
And now I’m bored with it too. Actually I was ready to quit many posts ago, but like I said, I figured I better stick it out and try to defend myself as well as I could.
of course i don’t hate u.
What turns me on —
whatever it is that women respond to as primally as men respond to visual displays of female sexuality
this ‘visual’ thing for a man is a kind of a bind, poor dears. from porn to the veil, extracting any putative biological basis for that, beyond the fact that we have eyes, and from the thousands and thousands of years of cultural conditioning and the myriad other conflicting factors is something that i don’t think is going to happen on a film website. the problem is that it’s a cliche…the visual side of men’s sex drive has become so schematized and commodified that it’s easy to forget that it’s a representation by limitation…women’s sex drive on the other hand (yes we do have one) is, in the gombrowiczian sense, still immature, and therefore a whole lot of berg (liable to flare freely up where it will, unbeknownst)…recognising and codifying it, at least culturally, still has some way to go, but there’s a freedom in that, at least for those not uneducated or relentlessly stupid – for which the widely touted ‘babies and weddings’ still suffices as an accepted substitution for sex drive.
but i don’t think darkmatters really is asking a question, as per mubi-usual, just making a statement that wants agreement.
anyway getting back to wimbledon i just realised that switzerland is surprisingly high in the sexy stakes. it’s got brains and brawn – federer and godard. eat your words, welles! as for porn….what’s porn to women is goose to the gander….last knee trembler i saw aside from the swiss tennis orgy was valhalla rising, which doesn’t really work as a film (what porn does?) but works 100% in appealing to and rousing the womb-bearing beast that apparently must content itself with that revolting ‘weddings and babies’…
i like david’s answer. concise, and full of louis.
Ruby – ah thank you!! So glad to hear it!!
2DMP – ok, I can agree with all of that – except that at first I was asking, and then I ventured the first (and so far only) answer. And I don’t quite understand how ‘babies and weddings’ is a ‘substitution’ for the male sex drive?
What I was talking about was strictly what I understand to be the evolutionary/biological element – the cultural element would be the old sexist view that women should stay home and raise the kids and cook and clean so the husband can have a carreer.
Weddings on the other hand – yeah, weddings are strictly cultural events – no animal correlation there. That’s why I dropped that one a little while after proposing it.
schematized and commodified that it’s easy to forget that it’s a representation by limitation
Isn’t the women’s representation commodified by ‘babies and weddings’ ?
I’m really hoping this thread will come up with an alternative to ‘power’….lol
Meanwhile, how about some practical advice.
I work with a guy who dates ‘peelers’ ( or as they are called here ‘dancers’) – he had a child out-of-wedlock with one of them.
He’s a pretty cool guy – by that I mean he controls his temporal-spatial environment at all times.
Every so often he comes to work and shows us a pic of his latest gal-pal, and yeah, they are naked.
Recently he was disappointed to find out some of his gal-pals are engaged in ‘actual sex’ for money – I guess he assumed it was all just being simulated.
He also tells us every time his young daughter wins and an academic award in school, which is often. Evidently she is very bright.
Anyway, if there is anything you would like to say to him (advice or whatever) I would be happy to relay it.
yes. these things go in cycles. ^ that one’s peak is its puncture.
anyway, too OT for this thread from me. sorry david.
i would say to peabody’s friend: “you have friends that use the phrase ‘out-of-wedlock’?”
Magpies: great post about women and sexuality.
Honestly, I’ll be a pragmatist here and say, who cares? How on earth do these generalizations help in reality when you are dealing with an individual? Don’t you just take a person in as they are, and forget all the theories? Isn’t that a bit easier and a bit more… FAIR?
I’ll never understand the “men are from mars, women are from venus” crap. I really have NO idea how this applies to real life, where you actually have to listen and understand a real person right in front of you, with all their thoughts and their personal history. Typecasting people never got me anywhere in terms of getting to know someone.
How on earth do these generalizations help in reality when you are dealing with an individual?
Exactly why there isn’t any practical advice, at least of a non-hypocritical sort.
And I’m from Uranus
haha mags and valhalla rising me and fight club
also i cannot stand roger federer! give me that spaniard nadal any day ;)
Holy! I can see the girls getting excited about this flick, but the mubi guys too? Just sayin’…
I bet none of y’all gushing over these working class blokes-
The best thing about Magic Mike:
Finally a chick flick which my gal didn’t force me to watch it with her. Her girls-night-out means hitting the pub for me & the lads tonight!
Obviously Djokovic is the best looking.
this guy?? AHAHAHAHAHA
i’ll stick with rafa
^ do these people realize how dumb their damn smirks look?
@Ruby You need glasses or something.
Love the working class blokes, Nightshift. ;)
rafa doesn’t like yr attitude gustavo :P
Here’s a scene from the best male stripper movie ever made
Never been to a strip club, but my friend had a stripper at his 17th birthday party. My 16 year old babyface gettin’ slapped around by her titties. There sure as hell wasn’t any steely-eyed drooling going on. It was more about this vapid entertainment than gettin’ horny. You gotta be alone for that; you don’t say “hey man, let’s go get boners together!”, unless your sex-life is of the notch-in-my-bedpost kind. The kind where your friends’ approval carries serious weight. I figger that this is more and more common. There was also a guy stripper for the girls, and it was of course the same kind of giggly entertainment, but he stayed in his skimpy loincloth thing.
What about these stripper parties where women line up to suck on the guy’s… wiener? I find it depressing when sex is just cheap entertainment.
That sounds more like something on the road to prostitution. Also, who’s really getting the benefit here? Not the women. Ridiculous.
The weirdest scene in Magic Mike has such a party. Mike and another stripper dress up as cops and arrive to “make an arrest” at a suburban home. They enterthe living room filled with women. But in the dining rom are a number of men — obviously husbands/boyfriends of the women. Why would these woemn have a party with male strippers with their own men present? Makes little sense — save in movie terms as a fight breaks out. Really silly.
“What about these stripper parties where women line up to suck on the guy’s… wiener? I find it depressing when sex is just cheap entertainment”
This is actually common than one can imagine. I did some work in the past (don’t ask…) with a company that specialises in these type of female ‘parties’- bachelorette, birthdays, coming outs (yes, lesbian’s last night as a hetero)- yup, it’s all cheap entertainment. Of course, mix it with alcohol, peer pressure and more alcohol and the party could easily turned to… well, you got the idea.
The worst is when the grandmothers take out their teeth and chomp down
yup that happens
“Why would these woemn have a party with male strippers with their own men present? Makes little sense…”
This is also really not that unusual, to see a few men in the audience. We’ll just assume they’re gays, but there are actually many men who enjoyed watching girls enjoy themselves. Men have such weird fetishes, not surprisingly.
That may be true at the shows, but in the scene I’m talking abotu the men are NOT enjoying themsleves at all.