Does it need to be perfect? It’s not facing perfection.
Amarcord 1 – Machuca 0
I liked the Fellini better.
The Dreamers 0 – Comedy of Innocence 1
Eh, it was okay.
The Dreamers 0 v Comedy of Innocence 1
L’Eclisse/Eclipse 0 v The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 1
Ali, my personal theory is that Fellini gave up on perfectionism after facing a creative crisis due to the failed project “Il viaggio di G. Mastorna” and the bad criticism his alternative project “Giuletta” received finally made him change the direction and leave his rigorous artistic ambitions behind in order to make films he thought the public wanted see. There´s nothing wrong with “Amarcord” as long as one watches the film in order to enjoy its imagination, but its far from being called a masterpiece, and doesn´t reach the same quality and depth of his earlier projects. I understand your reason for rejecting “Machuca”, but think that it works much better as a serious comment on troubled political times and equally manages to display beauty and imagination.
Wow. I can’t believe that no one has voted for The Dreamers. I mean, frankly, I haven’t seen A Comedy of Innocence, so I can’t say anything, but I will say that The Dreamers is one hell of a movie. Thanks, Drew, for making it one of my favorites!
Savvy
I read in an interview that Fellini considered Casanova (1976) his most accomplished film, aesthetically speaking.
As for Amarcord, it is masterful even if it is not as perfect as 8½ (well, practically nothing else is and hardly anything could be). It is one of the best (and near perfect) portraits of nostalgia I have ever seen. It is not only about the things remembered but about remembrance itself, about longing. It is not just about people and setting but about their idealization (and typification) through nostalgia. It is a movie where everything is extremely calculated. That is what I get from it, at least… (Consider this my explanation for my vote)
I don´t see ANY plagiatism in MACHUCO. As a matter of fact, the construction of MACHUCO is totally different than AU REVOIR DES ENFANTS.
The Dreamers (Bertolucci) v Comedy of Innocence (Ruiz) 1
Drew, I would have voted for Amarcord and L’Eclisse no matter what film stood against them, but sadly haven’t seen either of the opponents.
I think she was especially refering to the scene in which the headmaster leaves the school which is indeed strikingly similar to “Au revoir les enfants”, but on the other hand are these kind of references and inspired scenes something we constantly find in films, and as long as the concept and narrative itself is original is there no need to call it plagiatism in my opinion. The similarities between “Machuca” and “Au revoir les enfants” are nowhere near the line of “Reservoir Dogs” and “City on Fire” which is indeed one film copying another and a reason to call it lack of originality.
Amarcord 1 v Machuca
The Dreamers v Comedy of Innocence 1
L’Eclisse/Eclipse v The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo No vote. Moon in the Mirror was too dependent on dialogue to judge without subtitles.
some comments above about macuca were pretty much unfair..anyways,a lovely list here:
Amarcord 0 – Machuca 1
4 or 4,5/5 – 4,5 or 5/5
The Dreamers 0 – Comédie de l’Innocence 1
3,5/5 – 3,5 or 4/5
L’Eclisse – La Luna en el Espejo
5/5 – ?
i wish i had seen Luna,anyone out there who can find it with English subtitles?Eclisse is definite Antonioni and it would have been an interesting clash…
it’s not that i don’t adore Fellini,Amarcord is indeed a supreme use of past-present sequences to bring in a nostalgic pistachio,however…Machuca becomes even better with its realistic “menage a trois” of children in a devastating land,something Ruiz doesn’t bring with his newest accomplishment and yet,a dubious case of other dimensions is pretty much welcome from an established master…
Bertolucci’s film i said somewhere else is indeed 1 of his 3-4 films he succeeded making in another language other than Italian..i have nothing against it but the new Bertolucci really needs to get back to his “conformist” days (no pun intended)
Amarcord 1 – Machuca 0
2.The Dreamers (Bertolucci) v Comedy of Innocence (Ruiz)
Not seen Comedy of Innocence
L’Eclisse/Eclipse 0 – The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 1
Curiously I prefer Machuca to The Moon
Drew,i understand your sympathy towards Amarcord but for my part,i cannot simply understand how films like Amarcord of High and Low or Woman is a Woman can be representative of their famous directors,it’s not like they’ve made masterpieces till the end of their lives,i just hope Wood will get the chance he deserves in future competitions,hehe.
Ah, but Dimitris, we’re all entitled to pick the films we prefer, not just the ones regarded as most representative or best or likely to win, and in all 3 cases you mentioned the team managers are also having to save big films for later. Anyway, Amarcord is generally considered among the big 4 or 5 Fellini, along with 8 1/2, La Dolce Vita, La Strada and Nights of Cabiria. Can someone finish the match at 3pm GMT, that’s 4 1/2 hours time, and count the scores, thanks. The match can still go either way.
oh c’mon Kenji,Vitelloni is a whole lot better than Amarcord’s memoir linear..Apursansar reminded me that Fellini is almost like Kakogiannis’ career..he began making original,realistic portrayals of Italian society and ever since Fellini stepped in the late 60’s,his films are either hit or miss…. (not that they lost their fragrance,just not all of them are pure delights…aye to Satyricon,not so much with Orchestra Rehearsal)
Kakogiannis’ fall-down happened during the same period,which was in between the direction of his Trilogy of Theater Tragedies after he himself like Fellini made perfect films about the Greek travesties and the various classes of people in the 50’s and 60’s..i suppose like with other auteurs,not all have masterful films in their collection (as much as this notion has become a Holy Grail of many modern critics for past legends..)
well, i think Fellini went downhill after 8 1/2 and it was then name in the title, but Amarcord is almost certainly his most admired and popular (and Oscar-winning, for what little that’s worth really) of the later films. He was an excellent screenwriter early in his career but i think his ego got in the way, and playing to the expectations of the crowd, the glitterati as well as literati, the overused clowns, life as a circus, repetitions, but i don’t see what’s so wrong with Drew picking Amarcord;, it has quite a lot going for it i think, everything is subjective and i’m not as keen on I Vitelloni (i prefer the lesser known The White Sheik!).
Also don’t forget we had the 6 director rule. And this isn’t an exercise to find films that are most representative of their directors, or to find fault with managers; i was interested you chose Montenegro and not say Switchboard Operator for Makavejev, Dimitris, but that’s perfectly fine.
Amarcord (Fellini) 1 v Machuca (Wood)
I apologize that I can vote only on one pairing in this match. I just couldn’t find the time to watch the other two Chilean selections… :( But I suspect that it would’ve almost certainly been a split vote, as I think very lowly of Dreamers (what a juvenile mess by a director who was once so accomplished) and think very highly of L’Eclisse.
I’m pretty much in agreement with everyone’s criticism of Amarcord. It is without a doubt the film which marked the beginning of the end for Fellini. However…the film has a special place in my heart. It is one of those films that contributed to my love for cinema in those formative years. I liked Machuca very much, and it’s an important film that people need to watch. It may even be the better film, and I may be going with my heart rather than my brain here, but hey, that happens to even the best of us at times. :P
Dreamers is really getting a pounding here, i expected mixed opinions but they’ve been very negative. Drew may be feeling a little more relaxed with that vote for Amarcord.
haha,nothing’s wrong with picking Amarcord,i could have picked City of Women and have gotten an even worse backlash…but it’s what the results show sometimes when there are canonized films against modern masterpieces,nevertheless i hope all these clashes will take a different route in future competitions since this first time Cup is a major opportunity to value auteurs and films which have an equal significance to the canon…
for the record,i was more surprised with the enthusiasm people showed towards Landscape and Danube Waves whereas Forest of the Hanged and Reconstruction are the true masterpieces…
Amarcord 0 v Machuca 1
The Dreamers 0 v Comedy of Innocence 1
L’Eclisse/Eclipse 0 v The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 1
1.Amarcord 0 v Machuca 1
Never liked Amarcord much (or Fellini’s self indulgent “color” period as a whole). It’s flippancy has some charm but loses this match decisively.
2.The Dreamers 0 v Comedy of Innocence 0
Kind of a fizzle.
3.L’Eclisse/Eclipse 1 v The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 0
Let me know when someone tops the scene of the stock market crash in L’Ecliise. Or the ending or the fact that Monica Vitti is starring … or any number of things.
1.Amarcord 0 – Machuca 1
2.The Dreamers 0 – Comedy of Innocence 1
3.L’Eclisse/Eclipse 0 – The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 1
Voting is now closed.
Here’s the final count. Someone, please confirm.
Amarcord 10 – Machuca 9
The Dreamers 0 – Comedy of Innocence 13
L’Eclisse 5 – The Moon in the Mirror 4
Yep. Confirmed.
Confirmed.
Roger, Roger.
Italy qualifies second thanks to Raúl Ruiz. Spain, Germany or Canada await.
The Dreamers 0 – Comedy of Innocence 13
Isn’t that a new record, beating out all of those 12-0 matches? I remember Team Africa was close with Yeelen (13 votes), but didn’t quite make it because of 1 vote for the opponent.
Well spotted Myra, i’m amazed it should be Comedy of Innocence, ahead of so many masterpieces. Must say something about views here on The Dreamers too. Bertolucci would be shocked. Italy came perilously close to being sensationally eliminated. One different vote on either 1st or 3rd pairing and they would have been. But beware the 1982 football world cup factor when they struggled early and won the cup! I’ll put up the next matches then hope to post the group table.
apursansar
Amarcord 0 – Machuca 1
I must say that I don´t care that much for the films Fellini made from 1965 on since most of them are heavily flawed, displaying little psychological insight and seem like tedious repetitions of his own trademarks as if Fellini had decided to make typical Fellini films while caring more about the audience than about art itself. While the cinematography of “Amarcord” isn´t even close to the elaborated shot compositions of “8 1/2” and “La Dolce Vita” do the film´s characters rather appear like caricatures, and the only reason why I regard it an overall acceptable film is because of some memorable scenes in which he brilliantly makes use of the music as well as his overall attempt to reconstruct the Rimini of his childhood. The Chilean selection “Machuca” is not only a touching film about friendship marked by different social classes, but also a reconstruction of one of the most gruesome terror regimes Latin America had to endure. Despite the similarities with “Au revoir les Enfants” did Wood create a far more honest and realistic film about times during Pinochet than Fellini did about life under Mussolini´s fascist regime which rather appears like a gimmick in “Amarcord”, a film that doesn´t take itself as serious as the subject matter might have deserved.
L’Eclisse/Eclipse 1 – The Moon in the Mirror/La Luna en el Espejo 0
Antonioni´s final film of the “alienation” trilogy might be his greatest work, and does not only make use of the most outstanding framing and staging techniques I have seen in any Italian film, but also creates unforgettable moments of silence and beauty. His ability to illustrate the inner state of mind of his female protagonist without the need for words make it clear that he is one of the true masters of the medium. I also wouldn´t argue with anyone who states that “L´Eclisse” has the greatest ending sequence in cinema history. The great unknown director Caiozzi´s film “La Luna en el Espejo” is a brilliant depiction of a man´s attempt to deal with daily life and his love for an older woman while being constantly observed by his sick father. A strong aspect of the film is that Caiozzi manages to portray all of his three characters in a likeable and authentic way, since it would have been easy to have the father appear like nothing but a tyrant. The film also features some beautiful shots of Valparaíso which made me like it even more.