The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us 0
The Sacrifice 1 The Wind will Carry Us 0
The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 The Apple 1
Mother and Son 1 The Cyclist 0
Not for the first time, the best 2 films here are paired against each other. The Sacrifice is occasionally ponderous but its strengths are enormous, what a magnificent opening and a very touching and apt image for us to be left with. The Wind will Carry us is beautiful but i’m not sure the risky (and typical) repetitions of the driving back and forth quite pays off.
The Apple is a lovely little film, what a promising debut for a teenager and though she’s been consistently fine since, i’m not sure Samira has surpassed it. This was one of 2 films i showed my 11 year old niece, her first with subtitles, and she loved it. In Britain there aren’t many films showing social workers in a decent light. This isn’t judgmental, even while we may cringe at the old man’s attitude he’s not despicable, and it’s a clever mix of documentary and drama, illusion-reality common to Iranian films. The Dawns here are Quiet, with its characters and landscapes, the camaraderie and loyalties engendered, is involving too, far from disgraced.
Mother and Son is the best i’ve seen of Sokurov (i could do with seeing days of Eclipse), the look of it aiming at Friedrich paintings’ mystery and atmosphere is very impressive. I had high hopes of The Cyclist but it was a touch disappointing, so in this case it’s daughter who upholds the family honour
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind Will Carry Us 0
Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist 0
The Sacrifice 0 – The Wind will Carry Us 1
I find the Sacrifice a little preachy. I find The Wind Will Carry Us sublime.
The Dawns Here are Quiet 1 – The Apple 0
Two good films if not top shelf. I go with the Russian film because the story of the female rifle squads in WW II deserves to be told.
Mother and Son 0 – The Cyclist 1
Sokurov’s is certainly the more interesting technical film but I’m going for the film with the strong narrative that makes up for the mediocre mise-en-scene
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind Will Carry Us 0
The Dawns Here are Quiet 1 – The Apple 0
“The Dawns Here Are Quiet” – As far as Russian war cinema goes, this is its oversentimentalized propogandistic fairytale pinnacle and a movie not to be missed.
“The Apple” – Handicapped children have adventures amid the third world poverty of their fundamentalist homeland. I think there was a moral to it all somewhere as well…
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us 0
This is one of those remarkable pairings in this AWC event. Well, even the brilliant Kiarostami is no match for Tarkovsky in his farewell to cinema. Much of the symbols and allegory in The Sacrifice might be lost to those not already familiar with Tarkovsky’s previous work. The apocalyptic tone to the film is ominous of Tarkovky’s own demise, not the world’s (just yet). The burning of the house by the mad (or is he?) father is enigmatic unless you compare it to the burning barn in Mirror. Yet, the final scene and the tree are surely not needing any extra exegesis. This is a film of a most magical realism, indeed.
Kiarostami has given us yet another semi-comic treatment of the process of making a film in his story within a story. much like his Under the Olive Trees from Round 1. I loved the comic sequences of the documentary film director continually needing to go to the top of the hill to get (rather poor) reception on his cell phone. Yet, maybe this was done one too many times??? His talking to the man digging the endless well (who we only hear), and his relationships with the women and children in the village, are all done to emphasize the ironic-comic effect of the rather hopeless enterprise. The director’s ‘assistants’ are more like the two men dogging K in Kafka’s Castle. I am sure it is even funnier for Iranian audiences. This was a classic pairing, thanks to the manager’s choices.
The Dawns Here are Quiet 1 – The Apple 0
Much as I liked the bitter humanism and implied criticism of a dated patriarchy in Iran in The Apple, I could not resist the rather conventional war story from Russia. Still, it is remarkable for telling of female soldiers, for a change. This film lacks the subtlety of Klimov’s Come and See (hint for the next rounds, Russia’s manager), but manages to convey the story in a direct and forceful way.
Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist 0
I am very taken with the lyricism and heart-wrenching emotions conveyed in Mother & Son, but in no way does this diminish the same qualities in The Cyclist. Sokurov is just too strong here to an out-matched, but still interesting, Iranian director. The Cyclist is again a clear indictment of the treatment of immigrants in Iran, and a brave film, as a result. So far, this is Sokurov’s most brilliantly realized film – imo.
Good choices from Iran against some of Russia’s strongest contenders.
Yes, i also think the trips to the top of the hill for the mobile phone reception were done once too often; well these things happen, i guess it made a point about “civilised” urbanity struggling in the sticks and it was a comic turn, but it grated a little- and for some others when we screened it our film soc years back. Great ending though, and reminding of Kiarostmai’s interest in landscape photography
i won’t be voting yet but no love for Iran? :(
@ Joe Arthaus,
“This film lacks the subtlety of Klimov’s Come and See…”
Joe, please don’t take offense at my observation—I have great admiration for Klimov’s Come and See, but “subtlety” is the last thing that comes to my mind when I think of that film.
early days yet Dimitris, the current voting ratio is a bit more in Russia’s favour than i expected but they’ve put out a strong line-up
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us 0
haven’t seen any of the other 4 movies yet..
1. The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind Will Carry Us 0
This tears me apart. I can’t believe I’m voting against one of my favourite filmmakers. :(
2. The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 – The Apple 1
This one was hard too, and it could have gone to Russia for sure, but Apple stayed with me. It’s amazing that it was her debut at the young age of 18.
3. Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist 0
My absolute favourite from Sokurov. Deeply affecting for me.
Current scores:
Sacrifice 7 The Wind Will Carry Us 1
The Dawns Here are Quiet 3 The Apple 2
Mother and Son 4 The Cyclist 1
1. The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us 0
Damn shame ‘The Wind Will Carry Us’ had to lose – up against practically anything except Tarkovsky I would have voted for it in a heartbeat.
2. The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 – The Apple 1
The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 – The Apple 1
Only have one for this matchup
Mother and Son 0 – The Cyclist 1
For the second straight time, it looks like I’m voting in the minority :). You know, I’m not even going to sit here and say Mother and Son wasn’t more interesting looking or wasn’t better done. It just bored me to DEATH. I’m going with The Cyclist here, which just had a better realized story for me.
Blue K – “I have great admiration for Klimov’s Come and See, but “subtlety” is the last thing that comes to my mind when I think of that film.” Ha – you are absolutely right – poor choice of words on my part. I write these things on the fly, as is obvious to all. Let me see…maybe I should say devastating. I think that captures the sombre (yet another vain attempt at describing this film) mood of this film. I guess I meant (who knows?) that Klimov used his camerawork and placing of the action in a subtle (forget it) way to maximize the emotional jolt. That dead cow will haunt me and it set us up for that unbelievable final series of scenes. All of you who have seen this film will know what I am talking about here. This is in no way meant to infringe on The Dawns Here are Quiet discussion. Just a rather belabored explanation for Blue K. Sorry to interrupt the voting flow.
The Sacrifice 0 – The Wind will Carry Us 1
The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 – The Apple 1
Mother and Son 0 – The Cyclist 1
I don’t know exactly what has changed in my life over the past dozen or so years, but Tarkovsky seems to have lost a great deal of his former interest to me. The Sacrifice was one of my favorite films since I saw it when it first came out, it astounded me and was almost synonymous with the idea of what a great film should be. I kept that notion filed away as much of talk in the film faded in mind and only some vivid images remained which I assumed still showed what I believed was true. But when I watched it again in preparation for this match, much of the power had dissipated and instead it felt somewhat overwrought and a little hysterical in its concerns. To be sure there are still the moments that retain their power, but I no longer feel the same urgency or interest in the grand nature of the films concerns. My heart and mind have shifted to the smaller more human sized interests of Kiarostami and his little town. The more films I see from Kiarostami, the more I start to believe he is the finest filmmaker of my lifetime. A strangely easy vote for me.
One can see the immaturity of Samira Makhmalbaf in some of the narrative devices she uses in The Apple. They feel like the choices of inexperienced or youthful writer; locking up the old man in his house, a social worker allowing two young girls with no experience of the world to wander off by themselves, the quick embracing of the girls by other children, and so on, but the handling of the characters in the film shows a maturity that most directors never develop. The sympathy shown for all the people in the film is extraordinary, particularly in the acuity Makhmalbaf shows in telling us so much about the people with such minimal apparent effort. I liked the Dawns Here are Quiet a good deal, particularly in the moments when the women were talking amongst themselves in their barracks early on, but the latter half of the film became to action oriented to provide the same level of admiration from me. It earns a place of respect in the war movie genre, but it seemed to promise more. A narrow but solid win for The Apple.
Strangely, when I was watching Mother and Son I was completely swept up in its beauty, I was absolutely sure I would vote for it since the Cyclist didn’t involve me so intimately at all, but as the days wore on, The Cyclist stayed in my mind while the experience of watching Mother and Son faded in intensity. The difficulty I had in making my choice was in trying to decide whether the experience of watching a film is more important than the part of the film that lingers in ones mind. For 73 minutes Mother and Son is the better film, but The Cyclist has spent much more time with me than that, so I had to go with it.
Excellent choices by Russia, but Iran is one of a couple of teams that has completely won me over.
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us 0
The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 – The Apple 1
Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist 0
The Sacrifice 1 The Wind will Carry Us 0
The Dawns Here are Quiet 0 The Apple 1
Mother and Son 1 The Cyclist 0
The Sacrifice – The Wind will Carry Us
0-0 My least favorite of both filmmakers
The Dawns Here are Quiet 1 – The Apple 0
Certainly my type of film, only injured for a couple of annoying color flashbacks (too long and visually incongruent)
The Sacrifice 1 – The Wind will Carry Us
I echo the sentiments of many voters here and share their enthusiasm for Kiarostami’s films in general. While The Wind Will Carry Us would be quite an achievement for most filmmakers, it is one of the weaker links in his body of work. Any one of the 3 films from Koker Trilogy would’ve scored a handy victory here. The Sacrifice, too, is a weak link in Tarkovsky’ body of work, but it is clearly the better film in this pairing in my opinion.
The Dawns Here are Quiet – The Apple
I didn’t have the time to get to The Dawns Here Are Quiet, but I’m surprised that it is getting such little love in light of the competition. I admire the fact that Samira Makhmalbaf made The Apple as an 18 year old—I was flipping burgers when I was 18—but as Greg X pointed out, the immaturity in her film is quite evident. The narrative situations feel extremely abrupt and contrived, so the film simply did not garner the usual empathy that I feel when I watch the better films from contemporary Iran.
Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist
Here we have two relatively little-known films from two contemporary masters. While The Cyclist left me very skeptical at the beginning because of it rather far-fetched premise, its humanity won me over by the end of its briskly paced 80 minutes. But Sokurov’s Mother and Son is one of the purest expressions of genuine love I have encountered in contemporary cinema.
I’m very surprised by the gap between The Sacrifice and The Wind Will Carry Us. With The Apple it’s difficult to know for sure how much is based on the actual events but despite the amateurs involved i find it moving and the performances credible. Its sympathetic spirit is extraordinary; it may be that the rather overbearing nature of the social worker helps us empathise more with the views of the parents, who are not depicted as ogre-ish, far from it. We can feel for both generations, the freshness of discovery and the difficulty in overturning instilled repressive traditional values.
current scores:
The Sacrifice 11 The Wind Will Carry Us 2
The Dawns Here Are Quiet 4 The Apple 7
Mother and Son 7 The Cyclist 3
Hmm, two films from my Top 100 paired against each other…
One has probably the best cinematography I’ve ever seen, but the other gets my vote right now. ;-)
The Sacrifice 0 – The Wind Will Carry Us 1
The Apple was a revelation, and Cyclist also gets much love from me. But I haven’t seen the Russians…
The Sacrifice 1- The Wind Will Carry Us 0
Mother and Son 1- Cyclist 0
Well, Iran need a great comeback, i’m off out, can the match be closed as usual at 3pm GMT (about 3 hours from now)
i’ll be here Kenji to close the matches and i’ll be voting of course,too bad we didn’t have that much of a participation as of now..
The Sacrifice 0 – The Wind will Carry Us 1
As much as I love The Sacrifice, The Wind will Carry Us is my favorite Kiarostami, and The Sacrifice is far from being my favorite Tarkovsky.
Mother and Son 1 – The Cyclist 0
A sublime Sokurov indeed.The Cyclist is good too though.
apursansar
THE AUTEURS WORLD CUP 2009 : GROUP STAGE VOTING
We are in the 2nd round of 16 group matches, again with 2 matches from each group. The world cup is already well underway with 28 of 48 group matches played. New participants are still most welcome and allowed to vote in the following match-ups.
On this thread, voting will be on RUSSIA v IRAN, the 3rd match from Group 7. The other Group 7 match for voting over the next 20 hours, Sweden v Argentina, will be on another thread.
The voting period for this match lasts from Sunday 4th October 7 pm GMT (0) until Monday 5th October 3 pm GMT (0), which means that users will have 20 hours in order to publish their votes. The world map which lists all current time zones can be found on www.worldtimezone.com, so that everyone can be up to date about how much time is left.
After the voting period for matches 3 and 4 of Group 7 is over the votes will be counted and the results published before the next pair of matches begin. There are going to be two daily matches from each group until October 6th, and then a further 15 days break in order to allow viewings for the selected films in the third and final set of group matches which will start on October 22th and ends on October 30th. After that we will be on to the knock-out stages, with 2 teams qualifying from each group. The whole competition is expected to last until late December.
The Auteurs have been very busy and are still working on the delayed but promised separate landing page! This should enable all matches, films, selections and results in the world cup to be accessed together, and will hopefully be worth the wait.
Each user can vote on any line-up of each match as long as he/she has watched both films that are lined-up against each other. An explanation for the preference in each case would be greatly appreciated, as provided by most voters in the previous matches. You can vote on any single pairing; you do not have to vote on all 3 pairings of a match. Team managers are not allowed to vote on matches in their own group. The voting should be handled like this:
Film A 1 (or 0) – Film B 0 (or 1)
Film C 0 (or 1) – Film D 1 (or 0)
Film E 1 (or 0) – Film F 0 (or 1)
Please mark the winning film/score in large or heavy print. You can give your explanatory statements either after each vote or after all 3 votes.
The match you´re going to vote for on this thread is
RUSSIA v IRAN
The Sacrifice – The Wind will Carry Us
The Dawns Here are Quiet – The Apple
Mother and Son – The Cyclist