SEVEN SAMURAI. I wasn’t aware of what Criterion was at the time. It was the older, rather barebones release. The re-release was the first Criterion I bought and still my most treasured DVD possession.
I would not consider LE SAMOURAI, one of my favorite films, a samurai film: it is more concerned with American crime genre films from the noir period. Again, it is difficult to say without clearly outlining the conventions of the samurai genre, though I don’t think the film has to be set in historical Japan to be considered a samurai film (for example, I agree that GHOST DOG is partly a samurai film). I doubt LE SAMOURAI would even be considered a samurai film if it did not have that title or the (made up) opening epigraph.
To answer the question, besides SEVEN SAMURAI, I think Kobayashi’s HARAKIRI and SAMURAI REBELLION are a pair of the best samurai films.
“I remain firm about Le Samourai because it comments on the transcendental of the idea of what the samurai is: Someone good at what he does, and will do it at any cost for his superior, whoever that might be.”
I appreciate this definition of the samurai, Matthias, though I think it is somewhat unsubstantial. By this definition, many films that are clearly samurai films, such as HARAKIRI, would not be samurai films as in this example the protagonist has no loyalty to any such “superior.”
“Saying that a ‘samurai film’ must be confined to a historical period is akin to saying that a noir film cannot be a ‘noir’ if it is not set at some point between the 30s and 50s.”
I see your point, though I hope this was not directed towards me since I agreed that samurai films don’t necessarily need to be relegated to historical place. Citing film noir actually undercuts your argument instead of supporting it since many critics and historians consider film noir a style relegated to the post-war period within a certain time frame, rather than a genre. Again, some don’t agree.
I think you do bring up an interesting point regarding adaptation, however. YOJIMBO has some roots in hard boiled detective fiction and has influenced other films such as Leone’s FISTFUL OF DOLLARS. Thus, the issue you bring up is one of genre: in each case the story is the same but certain codes are changed to fit a genre. Just because two films have the same premise doesn’t mean they are relegated to the same genre: YOJIMBO can’t be called a hard boiled detective film, period. Again, this brings up the central question, which is: what are the codes and conventions of the samurai genre?
This may be a topic too large for the forum, but movies can be argued to death until these things are agreed upon.
I didn’t intend to say you were right or wrong, but rather continue the conversation and debate. In the end, I do see LE SAMOURAI as partly being a samurai film (after much consideration) though I can’t comment on COLLATERAL. It’s nice to see so many samurai film enthusiasts! as I am a lone wolf amongst my own friends in that regard. :)
The SEVEN SAMURAI box set is a treasure and I would save up for it and treat yourself one birthday or holiday. It’s amazing. Other than that the newly released HIGH AND LOW is very nice.
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
It’s serendipitous that this topic should be created just now as I have just begun my own viewing of Fassbinder films and today finished IN A YEAR WITH 13 MOONS. I have previously seen ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL and CHINESE ROULETTE. I think these films are all said to fall under Fassbinder’s Sirk-influenced phase in which he reworked the Hollywood melodrama, specifically as made by Douglas Sirk. I certainly see that in ALI, which is probably my favorite so far, as well as 13 MOONS and ROULETTE, though the latter two do still have remnants of anti-theater and are clearly influenced equally by theater as well as melodrama in its staging. CHINESE ROULETTE was probably the least interesting, though still beautiful enough to intrigue me. I plan to watch the BRD TRILOGY next (MARIA BRAUN, VERONIKA VOSS, LOLA) next and BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ over the summer.
I am especially intrigued by Fassbinder because he seems like such an interesting person (how can someone be so prolific?) and because he highly favors Sirk, who I also think is fantastic. Does anybody have a favorite Fassbinder?
1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Seven Samurai / Ran
3. 8 1/2
4. Annie Hall
5. Le Samourai
6. Written On the Wind
7. Two-Lane Blacktop
8. Badlands
9. The Big Lebowski / Fargo
10. Psycho
Honorable mention:
Vertigo, Taxi Driver, Chinatown, Harakiri, Bonnie and Clyde, Days of Heaven, Blue Velvet, Playtime
I was drawn by this blog post at cinemasparagus (http://cinemasparagus.blogspot.com/) which asks if/why cinephilia is predominantly male. I never thought about it, but even by looking at the members of this site and those who comment on the forums (mostly all guys) I am struck by the lack of females. Any thoughts on the division between genders and deep cinema appreciation?
“(one reason: they have proven to be pretentious egoists determined to prove they know everything about movies while knowing nothing about cinema)” t seem to be the case for literature as most canonical works are by males (as the canon is constructed by white males) .
(one reason: they have proven to be pretentious egoists determined to prove they know everything about movies while knowing nothing about cinema) <———— so true. haha.
Bob: Thanks for your thoughts, they were intriguing. And it is IS hard to not generalize, but I think you may have made a good point about men being combative and needing to show off — in this case in the possession of knowledge.
To return to SL HUE’s point, if females are more drawn to literature classes (which I too, as an English major, can attest to), then is literature a more feminine art form than cinema? Is serious, deep discussion of written texts more appealing for females than the serious, deep discussion of moving images? Is it a subtle lack of ideological resonance since, as HUE pointed out, there is not a large female presence in the industry in terms of directors?
I very much enjoy FILM GENRE READER for a collection of excellent and seminal essays. If you have interest in the films of Arthur Penn, Oliver Stone, Stanley Kubrick, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, and/or Robert Altman then I would recommend Robert Kolker’s CINEMA OF LONELINESS.
What was the first Criterion movie you watched? over 3 years ago
SEVEN SAMURAI. I wasn’t aware of what Criterion was at the time. It was the older, rather barebones release. The re-release was the first Criterion I bought and still my most treasured DVD possession.
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Greatest samurai film of all time? over 3 years ago
I would not consider LE SAMOURAI, one of my favorite films, a samurai film: it is more concerned with American crime genre films from the noir period. Again, it is difficult to say without clearly outlining the conventions of the samurai genre, though I don’t think the film has to be set in historical Japan to be considered a samurai film (for example, I agree that GHOST DOG is partly a samurai film). I doubt LE SAMOURAI would even be considered a samurai film if it did not have that title or the (made up) opening epigraph.
To answer the question, besides SEVEN SAMURAI, I think Kobayashi’s HARAKIRI and SAMURAI REBELLION are a pair of the best samurai films.
Go to Comment
Greatest samurai film of all time? over 3 years ago
“I remain firm about Le Samourai because it comments on the transcendental of the idea of what the samurai is: Someone good at what he does, and will do it at any cost for his superior, whoever that might be.”
I appreciate this definition of the samurai, Matthias, though I think it is somewhat unsubstantial. By this definition, many films that are clearly samurai films, such as HARAKIRI, would not be samurai films as in this example the protagonist has no loyalty to any such “superior.”
“Saying that a ‘samurai film’ must be confined to a historical period is akin to saying that a noir film cannot be a ‘noir’ if it is not set at some point between the 30s and 50s.”
I see your point, though I hope this was not directed towards me since I agreed that samurai films don’t necessarily need to be relegated to historical place. Citing film noir actually undercuts your argument instead of supporting it since many critics and historians consider film noir a style relegated to the post-war period within a certain time frame, rather than a genre. Again, some don’t agree.
I think you do bring up an interesting point regarding adaptation, however. YOJIMBO has some roots in hard boiled detective fiction and has influenced other films such as Leone’s FISTFUL OF DOLLARS. Thus, the issue you bring up is one of genre: in each case the story is the same but certain codes are changed to fit a genre. Just because two films have the same premise doesn’t mean they are relegated to the same genre: YOJIMBO can’t be called a hard boiled detective film, period. Again, this brings up the central question, which is: what are the codes and conventions of the samurai genre?
This may be a topic too large for the forum, but movies can be argued to death until these things are agreed upon.
Go to Comment
Greatest samurai film of all time? over 3 years ago
I didn’t intend to say you were right or wrong, but rather continue the conversation and debate. In the end, I do see LE SAMOURAI as partly being a samurai film (after much consideration) though I can’t comment on COLLATERAL. It’s nice to see so many samurai film enthusiasts! as I am a lone wolf amongst my own friends in that regard. :)
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Now, how about CRITERION issued films you just don't like!! over 3 years ago
Besides ARMAGEDDON, I would say that Noah Baumbach’s KICKING AND SCREAMING has to be one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen in my life.
Why is there no love for Tati?? Tati is fantastic!
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Here it is... Top 10 films of all time? over 3 years ago
I refuse to even attempt to offer an objective list.
I will instead offer my favorite film:
MCCABE & MRS. MILLER
and favorite director:
Akira Kurosawa (SEVEN SAMURAI, RAN, HIGH AND LOW, YOJIMBO, THRONE OF BLOOD, etc.)
and favorite film that hasn’t appeared on anyone else’s list so far:
WRITTEN ON THE WIND
I am glad to find so many people with similar tastes (Rick, Rob, etc.)!
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Films that changed how you looked at cinema over 3 years ago
RAN by Kurosawa
I realized film can be more than entertainment.
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Best Kurosawa Criterion releases? over 3 years ago
The SEVEN SAMURAI box set is a treasure and I would save up for it and treat yourself one birthday or holiday. It’s amazing. Other than that the newly released HIGH AND LOW is very nice.
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What great films do you violently hate for no other reason than because you're a total idiot? over 3 years ago
THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION. i don’t “violently hate” the movie itself, just how much people think it’s the best thing ever made.
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Best title over 3 years ago
Whoever said HOLD ME WHILE I’M NAKED is absolutely right.
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You choose the book to make into a film. Then choose the director. Go! over 3 years ago
BLOOD MERIDIAN by Sam Peckinpah
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Greatest samurai film of all time? over 3 years ago
LAST SAMURAI is a guilty pleasure for me
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Slumdog Millionaire Overrated Film of the Year over 3 years ago
why is Tati being put down all of sudden? let’s get back to the topic: SLUMDOG was a bore.
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CHARACTERS IN A FILM WHO FATE MAKES YOU WEEP over 3 years ago
McCabe and Keith Carradine’s cowboy character in MCCABE & MRS. MILLER
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Who else thinks that Howard Hawks is vastly overrated? over 3 years ago
Haven’t seen enough films to really say, but so far he has earned his reputation with me. Especially with SCARFACE.
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CHARACTERS IN A FILM WHO FATE MAKES YOU WEEP over 3 years ago
CC Baxter in THE APARTMENT
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Are posts on overrated films and directors also overrated? over 3 years ago
calling posts on overrated movies and directors overrated is overrated
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Books over 3 years ago
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
Go to Comment
Books over 3 years ago
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
Go to Comment
Books over 3 years ago
I am currently reading FEAR AND LOATHING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ’72 by H.S. Thompson as well as MUSIC FOR CHAMELEONS by Capote.
In continuation of this discussion, does anyone have suggestions for books that inspired films? Personal favorites in that regard? I am referring more to books that were made famous because of the film adaptation, rather than a well-known book, such as GRAPES OF WRATH, that stands on its own.
Go to Comment
Books over 3 years ago
aghh sorry, triple post.
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RAINER WERNER FASSBINDER - THOUGHTS? over 3 years ago
It’s serendipitous that this topic should be created just now as I have just begun my own viewing of Fassbinder films and today finished IN A YEAR WITH 13 MOONS. I have previously seen ALI: FEAR EATS THE SOUL and CHINESE ROULETTE. I think these films are all said to fall under Fassbinder’s Sirk-influenced phase in which he reworked the Hollywood melodrama, specifically as made by Douglas Sirk. I certainly see that in ALI, which is probably my favorite so far, as well as 13 MOONS and ROULETTE, though the latter two do still have remnants of anti-theater and are clearly influenced equally by theater as well as melodrama in its staging. CHINESE ROULETTE was probably the least interesting, though still beautiful enough to intrigue me. I plan to watch the BRD TRILOGY next (MARIA BRAUN, VERONIKA VOSS, LOLA) next and BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ over the summer.
I am especially intrigued by Fassbinder because he seems like such an interesting person (how can someone be so prolific?) and because he highly favors Sirk, who I also think is fantastic. Does anybody have a favorite Fassbinder?
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Barnes & Noble, buy 2 get one free... over 3 years ago
I used to work for B&N and go broke from these darned sales and their vast Criterion stock.
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What's your Top 10? over 3 years ago
1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Seven Samurai / Ran
3. 8 1/2
4. Annie Hall
5. Le Samourai
6. Written On the Wind
7. Two-Lane Blacktop
8. Badlands
9. The Big Lebowski / Fargo
10. Psycho
Honorable mention:
Vertigo, Taxi Driver, Chinatown, Harakiri, Bonnie and Clyde, Days of Heaven, Blue Velvet, Playtime
Go to Comment
Cinephilia and Gender over 3 years ago
I was drawn by this blog post at cinemasparagus (http://cinemasparagus.blogspot.com/) which asks if/why cinephilia is predominantly male. I never thought about it, but even by looking at the members of this site and those who comment on the forums (mostly all guys) I am struck by the lack of females. Any thoughts on the division between genders and deep cinema appreciation?
Go to Comment
What's the most annoying film music you've had to endure? over 3 years ago
has anyone seen a film called I AM A CAT by Kon Ichikawa? worst synth music to accompany a bad film.
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Cinephilia and Gender over 3 years ago
“(one reason: they have proven to be pretentious egoists determined to prove they know everything about movies while knowing nothing about cinema)” t seem to be the case for literature as most canonical works are by males (as the canon is constructed by white males) .
Go to Comment
Cinephilia and Gender over 3 years ago
(one reason: they have proven to be pretentious egoists determined to prove they know everything about movies while knowing nothing about cinema) <———— so true. haha.
Go to Comment
Cinephilia and Gender over 3 years ago
Bob: Thanks for your thoughts, they were intriguing. And it is IS hard to not generalize, but I think you may have made a good point about men being combative and needing to show off — in this case in the possession of knowledge.
To return to SL HUE’s point, if females are more drawn to literature classes (which I too, as an English major, can attest to), then is literature a more feminine art form than cinema? Is serious, deep discussion of written texts more appealing for females than the serious, deep discussion of moving images? Is it a subtle lack of ideological resonance since, as HUE pointed out, there is not a large female presence in the industry in terms of directors?
Go to Comment
Books about film. over 3 years ago
I very much enjoy FILM GENRE READER for a collection of excellent and seminal essays. If you have interest in the films of Arthur Penn, Oliver Stone, Stanley Kubrick, Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, and/or Robert Altman then I would recommend Robert Kolker’s CINEMA OF LONELINESS.
Go to Comment