Von Trier is the ideologue. Not finding misogyny a worthwhile artistic niche doesn’t make one an ideologue.
Maybe you have to have a fancy name to appreciate Von Trier. Perhaps I should put numbers after my name or add a Von too. Seems to have worked for a few filmmakers. But at least Sternberg had talent.
But that ‘wrong assumption’ is drawn from the films themselves. We’re not talking about some bs prejudice that’s directed towards Gallo’s films for example.
Your analogy makes no sense and is absurdly reductive. There isn’t a viewer on earth who is that naive. What do you propose it is that viewers are misinterpreting as misogyny in Trier’s work?
Asking where the misogyny in a film like Dancer in the Dark resides is the equivalent of asking where the paintings are in the Louvre.
I’m well aware that depicting/representing acts in films (or any art) does not equate to condoning them. Trier, however, goes out of his way to do it in nearly every one of his films and usually for no apparant reason. Or if there is a reason, it’s usually absurdly manipulative; disgustingly so.
Yes, I’ve seen both films, but I’m wondering whether you have. I don’t see how Dancer belonging to a trilogy has any bearing on the matter either, or the fact that it won the Palme D’Or.
As for Dogville, are you kidding me?! As Apursansar says, she’s raped and treated like sh!t throughout the film and then we have to swallow that disgusting revenge ending, as if it’s all OK now.
No they don’t matter. And if you think awards have any bearing on films I wish you’d have told me at the beginning so I didn’t waste my time talking to you. I have no personal feelings towards Trier. Like I said, I’m well aware that depicting something in art does not equate to condoning or believing it.
I’m afraid you’re the one coming off immature Peabody the third, both in the way you’re replying to people and your sheer blinkerd view of things.
No, we already have all of his films because of Tartan.
But they went bust and their titles out of print (although they have risen from the ashes since), so it’s nice to know that the BFI are getting them back out there.
Off the top of my head and therefore probably forgetting people:
James Gray
Michael Haneke
Pedro Almodovar
Michael Mann
Jia Zhang Ke
The Dardennes
Godard
Malick
Spike Lee
Reygadas
Cronenberg
Gus Van Sant
Scorsese
Kiyoshi Kurosawa
Lucile Hadzihalilovic (why hasn’t she made another film!)
Michael Winterbottom
Ken Loach
There’s lots I still ‘need’ to see too, but even as it stands I’d find it near impossible to do a top 10. There’s easily around 30-50 films that could comfortably be in a top 10. I might have to do something silly like no more than 1 or 2 from the same country.
Kerouac – The Town and the City, Maggie Cassidy, The Dharma Bums etc
Keith Waterhouse – Billy Liar
John Kennedy Toole – A Confederacy of Dunces
Hunter S Thompson – Hell’s Angels
Maurice Leblanc – Arsene Lupin stories
Primo Levi – If Not Now, When?
Salinger – Catcher in the Rye
Cheesy crime stuff like Lee Child and Carlos Ruiz Zafon and Jed Rubenfeld
Jerome K Jerome
Bill Bryson
Michael Chabon — Wonder Boys
Gilbert Adair
The Third Policeman
Catch 22
Kidnapped
My dissertation used lots of London set films from the 1960s so hopefully I can help.
I’m at the office now, so off the top of my head;
Twisted Nerve – minor horror masterpiece, with a Herrmann score to boot. Hywell Bennett was a great actor but sadly never went anywhere
Help! – Full blown masterpiece, forget that it’s a vehicle for The Beatles, this isn’t a trfile. Monty Python humour before Python and the best ‘swinging sixties’ sets.
Catch Us If You Can – again, a vehicle for a band and whilst not a great film like Help! it’s really not bad either. Quite a lot going on and a great time capsule.
Darling – not a favourite from Schlesinger but lots of people seem to really like it and it certainly does capture the swinging element.
Alfie – One of the greatest British films of its era and a popular success. Turned Michael Caine into a star. Swinging, but more working class than Darling and Blow Up
The Knack and How to Get It – I don’t think this has aged too well but it is very interesting as a time capsule. Was extremely popular in its day too and definitely fits your criteria
Bedazzled – Truly hilarious and a really great film. Peter Cook is phenomenal. I put off watching this for years because of the awful remake, but it’s one of my favourite films from the era now
Up the Junction – great little film from a director who was extremely promising. See The Italian Job too.
The Ipcress File – Fantastic use of the library at the British Museum. Furie thought he was the reincarnation of Gregg Toland and the weirdly placed shots for no reason can get a bit annoying. All the Deighton films from the 60s are better than the Bond films though.
I’ll try and think of some more but they should hopefully get you started.
Half males, half females is ambitious, although there are probably 4 female directors from Iran alone that I could use. No more than one per director is very sensible for a top 10. I can’t think of anyone who would merit more than one anyway, even though there must be a few.
Yes, Abel’s history is spot on. If you want to concentrate solely on ‘swinging’ iconic, carnaby street London, there’s not much use looking at stuff before 1965. The guys that came over from the Free cinema movement in the late 50s didn’t really make the sort of films I mentioned above. Although by all means check out masterpieces like Peeping Tom and stuff like The L Shaped Room.
You do start to see films more concerned with relationships in 63 with stuff like The Servant, which probably wouldn’t have been made in the 1950s. But 1965 is the point where the floodgates begin to burst and we get stuff like Repulsion and gonzo oddities like Primitive London (definitely check this curio out!). OOhh, I nearly forgot Morgan: A Suitable Case for Treatment. Another big success at the time that’s more in the realm of Knack and Catch Us If You Can; worth a watch if you’ve seen most of the other stuff.
Another film from an outsider, Godard’s One + One (partly) about another iconic band in the recording studio.
Oh definitely Jeff, I completely agree. People often mistakenly think that the ‘swinging’ 60s was swinging from the get go and till the end, but if we’re being really strict, emancipation, full adoption of fashion and design comes as late as 66 (at least for the masses and media) and dissipates as early as 68-69, with the onset of dissilusionment, the riots, the protests and young people just being generally pissed off at what didn’t come to pass.
Then the Americans take over from the Brits at making films about the zeitgeist and we get stuff like Easy Rider and Two Lane Blacktop. And retrospectively Regular Lovers, which I’m sure Garrell would have made at the time if he could afford to make anything other than shorts.
1. Do the Right Thing
1. 25th Hour
3. When the Levees Broke
4.Clockers
5. Inside Man
6. Summer of Sam
7. Malcolm X (this should probably be higher)
8. She’s Gotta Have It
9. He Got Game
10. Mo Better Blues
Yes, true. Although Antonioni was never exactly upbeat! No matter where or when he was. But he was probably more prescient than most, through luck or intuition. I doubt many of that generation would have believed all the perceived freedoms and hopes would end so quickly.
There was a group of cinephiles in Paris who used to screen films in catacombs around the city, playing cat and mouse with the police. There’s probably an article online still with more detail.
I haven’t seen anything really bad, but I’d have to go for Year One too.
Despite a couple of decent jokes and a cast with lots of people I find funny, it was quite painfully mediocre, cliche and unfunny. The trailer made it look like a good concept, like a new Life of Brian, but the wit was too sparse and the story too trite.
Ha ha.. that’s mostly true and funny. But to be fair to the guy, Warp did put out his records. I used to have the one with the crazy racist liner note rant. I wish I still had it. Maybe it can be read online….
Anything on Blue Underground. The Argento stuff, hell, all the horror stuff. Bad Boy Bubby, although the Eureka blu is better.
There isn’t too much yet. BFI, Optimum and MoC are releasing interesting stuff. Artificial Eye released a handful of titles more than a year ago and seem to have released almost nothing since.
Gringo, from what I’ve seen, that is one seriously awesome alternative canon list.
So what exactly are the rules for this? No more than three per country and one per director and not on the TSPDT or IMDB top lists and not on any other members list? Is that the gist of it?
Fantomas (1913/1914, France)
Sur un air de Charleston (France, 1927)
The Fall of the House of Usher (France, 1928)
Gone to Earth (UK, 1950)
What Price Glory (USA, 1952)
Twisted Nerve (UK, 1968)
The Rain People (USA, 1969)
The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner (Germany, 1974)
The Big Racket (Italy, 1976)
Nighthawks (UK, 1978)
Pepi, Luci, Bom (spain, 1980)
Querelle (Germany, 1982)
Tokyo-Ga (Germany, 1985)
Marriage of the Blessed (Iran, 1989)
The Red Squirrel (Spain, 1993)
Bad Boy Bubby (Australia, 1993)
Xiao Wu/Pickpocket (China 1997)
Dil Se (India, 1998)
The Yards (USA, 2000)
The Fall (India/UK/USA, 2006)
FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
I’ve only seen a couple of his films from this decade, but I doubt he’d crack a top 50 filmmakers of the decade for me.
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FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
Von Trier is the ideologue. Not finding misogyny a worthwhile artistic niche doesn’t make one an ideologue.
Maybe you have to have a fancy name to appreciate Von Trier. Perhaps I should put numbers after my name or add a Von too. Seems to have worked for a few filmmakers. But at least Sternberg had talent.
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FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
But that ‘wrong assumption’ is drawn from the films themselves. We’re not talking about some bs prejudice that’s directed towards Gallo’s films for example.
Your analogy makes no sense and is absurdly reductive. There isn’t a viewer on earth who is that naive. What do you propose it is that viewers are misinterpreting as misogyny in Trier’s work?
Go to Comment
FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
Asking where the misogyny in a film like Dancer in the Dark resides is the equivalent of asking where the paintings are in the Louvre.
I’m well aware that depicting/representing acts in films (or any art) does not equate to condoning them. Trier, however, goes out of his way to do it in nearly every one of his films and usually for no apparant reason. Or if there is a reason, it’s usually absurdly manipulative; disgustingly so.
Go to Comment
FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
dp
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FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
Yes, I’ve seen both films, but I’m wondering whether you have. I don’t see how Dancer belonging to a trilogy has any bearing on the matter either, or the fact that it won the Palme D’Or.
As for Dogville, are you kidding me?! As Apursansar says, she’s raped and treated like sh!t throughout the film and then we have to swallow that disgusting revenge ending, as if it’s all OK now.
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FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
Me too apparantly….
I knew I shouldn’t have put my age in my profile! Damn whippersnappers.
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FILMMAKER OF THE DECADE: LARS VON TRIER over 2 years ago
No they don’t matter. And if you think awards have any bearing on films I wish you’d have told me at the beginning so I didn’t waste my time talking to you. I have no personal feelings towards Trier. Like I said, I’m well aware that depicting something in art does not equate to condoning or believing it.
I’m afraid you’re the one coming off immature Peabody the third, both in the way you’re replying to people and your sheer blinkerd view of things.
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Ozu at BFI over 2 years ago
No, we already have all of his films because of Tartan.
But they went bust and their titles out of print (although they have risen from the ashes since), so it’s nice to know that the BFI are getting them back out there.
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THE AUTEURS BEST OF THE DECADE: FILMMAKERS over 2 years ago
Off the top of my head and therefore probably forgetting people:
James Gray
Michael Haneke
Pedro Almodovar
Michael Mann
Jia Zhang Ke
The Dardennes
Godard
Malick
Spike Lee
Reygadas
Cronenberg
Gus Van Sant
Scorsese
Kiyoshi Kurosawa
Lucile Hadzihalilovic (why hasn’t she made another film!)
Michael Winterbottom
Ken Loach
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The Auteurs Best of the Decade Poll over 2 years ago
There’s lots I still ‘need’ to see too, but even as it stands I’d find it near impossible to do a top 10. There’s easily around 30-50 films that could comfortably be in a top 10. I might have to do something silly like no more than 1 or 2 from the same country.
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Who do you read? over 2 years ago
Some favourites….
Kerouac – The Town and the City, Maggie Cassidy, The Dharma Bums etc
Keith Waterhouse – Billy Liar
John Kennedy Toole – A Confederacy of Dunces
Hunter S Thompson – Hell’s Angels
Maurice Leblanc – Arsene Lupin stories
Primo Levi – If Not Now, When?
Salinger – Catcher in the Rye
Cheesy crime stuff like Lee Child and Carlos Ruiz Zafon and Jed Rubenfeld
Jerome K Jerome
Bill Bryson
Michael Chabon — Wonder Boys
Gilbert Adair
The Third Policeman
Catch 22
Kidnapped
Go to Comment
Swinging London over 2 years ago
My dissertation used lots of London set films from the 1960s so hopefully I can help.
I’m at the office now, so off the top of my head;
Twisted Nerve – minor horror masterpiece, with a Herrmann score to boot. Hywell Bennett was a great actor but sadly never went anywhere
Help! – Full blown masterpiece, forget that it’s a vehicle for The Beatles, this isn’t a trfile. Monty Python humour before Python and the best ‘swinging sixties’ sets.
Catch Us If You Can – again, a vehicle for a band and whilst not a great film like Help! it’s really not bad either. Quite a lot going on and a great time capsule.
Darling – not a favourite from Schlesinger but lots of people seem to really like it and it certainly does capture the swinging element.
Alfie – One of the greatest British films of its era and a popular success. Turned Michael Caine into a star. Swinging, but more working class than Darling and Blow Up
The Knack and How to Get It – I don’t think this has aged too well but it is very interesting as a time capsule. Was extremely popular in its day too and definitely fits your criteria
Bedazzled – Truly hilarious and a really great film. Peter Cook is phenomenal. I put off watching this for years because of the awful remake, but it’s one of my favourite films from the era now
Up the Junction – great little film from a director who was extremely promising. See The Italian Job too.
The Ipcress File – Fantastic use of the library at the British Museum. Furie thought he was the reincarnation of Gregg Toland and the weirdly placed shots for no reason can get a bit annoying. All the Deighton films from the 60s are better than the Bond films though.
I’ll try and think of some more but they should hopefully get you started.
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The Auteurs Best of the Decade Poll over 2 years ago
Half males, half females is ambitious, although there are probably 4 female directors from Iran alone that I could use. No more than one per director is very sensible for a top 10. I can’t think of anyone who would merit more than one anyway, even though there must be a few.
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The Auteurs' Fake Criterion Covers over 2 years ago
Definitely see it. I prefer the second cover, but I’d maybe introduce some green like on the poster.
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IF WE IGNORE 81/2 AND DOLCE VITA, WHAT'D BE THE BEST FELLINI MOVIE? over 2 years ago
Even not ignoring those films, it could be I Vitelloni or Amarcord. Those are certainly my four favourite Fellini films.
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Swinging London over 2 years ago
Yes, Abel’s history is spot on. If you want to concentrate solely on ‘swinging’ iconic, carnaby street London, there’s not much use looking at stuff before 1965. The guys that came over from the Free cinema movement in the late 50s didn’t really make the sort of films I mentioned above. Although by all means check out masterpieces like Peeping Tom and stuff like The L Shaped Room.
You do start to see films more concerned with relationships in 63 with stuff like The Servant, which probably wouldn’t have been made in the 1950s. But 1965 is the point where the floodgates begin to burst and we get stuff like Repulsion and gonzo oddities like Primitive London (definitely check this curio out!). OOhh, I nearly forgot Morgan: A Suitable Case for Treatment. Another big success at the time that’s more in the realm of Knack and Catch Us If You Can; worth a watch if you’ve seen most of the other stuff.
Another film from an outsider, Godard’s One + One (partly) about another iconic band in the recording studio.
Go to Comment
Swinging London over 2 years ago
Oh definitely Jeff, I completely agree. People often mistakenly think that the ‘swinging’ 60s was swinging from the get go and till the end, but if we’re being really strict, emancipation, full adoption of fashion and design comes as late as 66 (at least for the masses and media) and dissipates as early as 68-69, with the onset of dissilusionment, the riots, the protests and young people just being generally pissed off at what didn’t come to pass.
Then the Americans take over from the Brits at making films about the zeitgeist and we get stuff like Easy Rider and Two Lane Blacktop. And retrospectively Regular Lovers, which I’m sure Garrell would have made at the time if he could afford to make anything other than shorts.
Go to Comment
Top 10 Films Directed by Spike Lee over 2 years ago
1. Do the Right Thing
1. 25th Hour
3. When the Levees Broke
4.Clockers
5. Inside Man
6. Summer of Sam
7. Malcolm X (this should probably be higher)
8. She’s Gotta Have It
9. He Got Game
10. Mo Better Blues
The order’s pretty tenuous after the first few.
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Swinging London over 2 years ago
Yes, true. Although Antonioni was never exactly upbeat! No matter where or when he was. But he was probably more prescient than most, through luck or intuition. I doubt many of that generation would have believed all the perceived freedoms and hopes would end so quickly.
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Secret Cinema over 2 years ago
@ Valerie
There was a group of cinephiles in Paris who used to screen films in catacombs around the city, playing cat and mouse with the police. There’s probably an article online still with more detail.
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WORST FILMS OF 2009 over 2 years ago
I haven’t seen anything really bad, but I’d have to go for Year One too.
Despite a couple of decent jokes and a cast with lots of people I find funny, it was quite painfully mediocre, cliche and unfunny. The trailer made it look like a good concept, like a new Life of Brian, but the wit was too sparse and the story too trite.
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News Sure To Make Certain People On This Board Wet Themselves (You Know Who You Are) over 2 years ago
Ha ha.. that’s mostly true and funny. But to be fair to the guy, Warp did put out his records. I used to have the one with the crazy racist liner note rant. I wish I still had it. Maybe it can be read online….
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Non-Criterion Blu-Ray Titles over 2 years ago
Anything on Blue Underground. The Argento stuff, hell, all the horror stuff. Bad Boy Bubby, although the Eureka blu is better.
There isn’t too much yet. BFI, Optimum and MoC are releasing interesting stuff. Artificial Eye released a handful of titles more than a year ago and seem to have released almost nothing since.
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Who do you read? over 2 years ago
Good call on de Beauvoir. I forgot to mention her, which is ridiculous as she was a real cinephile too.
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Swinging London over 2 years ago
@ Jeff
It sounds like it could be Bronco Bullfrog, but it’s only a guess.
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The Making of The Auteurs' Film Canon, Essential 100 Films: What do you think? over 2 years ago
Gringo, from what I’ve seen, that is one seriously awesome alternative canon list.
So what exactly are the rules for this? No more than three per country and one per director and not on the TSPDT or IMDB top lists and not on any other members list? Is that the gist of it?
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The Ballsiest, Most Courageous Films Of The '00s? over 2 years ago
Ten Canoes was quite ballsy if ballsy = ambitious.
Offside and The Circle were pretty ballsy at confronting Iranian society’s idea of women.
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The Making of The Auteurs' Film Canon, Essential 100 Films: What do you think? over 2 years ago
And mine:
Fantomas (1913/1914, France)
Sur un air de Charleston (France, 1927)
The Fall of the House of Usher (France, 1928)
Gone to Earth (UK, 1950)
What Price Glory (USA, 1952)
Twisted Nerve (UK, 1968)
The Rain People (USA, 1969)
The Great Ecstasy of Woodcarver Steiner (Germany, 1974)
The Big Racket (Italy, 1976)
Nighthawks (UK, 1978)
Pepi, Luci, Bom (spain, 1980)
Querelle (Germany, 1982)
Tokyo-Ga (Germany, 1985)
Marriage of the Blessed (Iran, 1989)
The Red Squirrel (Spain, 1993)
Bad Boy Bubby (Australia, 1993)
Xiao Wu/Pickpocket (China 1997)
Dil Se (India, 1998)
The Yards (USA, 2000)
The Fall (India/UK/USA, 2006)
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The Making of The Auteurs' Film Canon, Essential 100 Films: What do you think? over 2 years ago
Ok, I’ll swap The Fall.
I’ll have Machuca (Chile, 2004) instead.
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