Hello,
English prof from Canada, which is a place found just above America but is colder and more anal retentive. There are also more donuts and curling rinks here.
I don’t think there has ever been a decent film about curling. There’s a forum discussion just waiting to happen.
Most recent viewings: Sorry, Wrong Number, and Au Hasard Balthazar. Both brilliant; no curling in either.
I haven’t seen ‘The Locket’ but will, now. And I’m almost ready to say that the final scene of Au Hasard is the saddest, ever. Excruciating but beautiful.
Martin Amis; Ian McEwan; EL Doctorow; Mamet; Philip Roth; Chomsky, Finkelstein, Hitchens; Ted Hughes, who is better than Plath (yes, I am trying to stir up trouble)…
I don’t read anything with a pink cover, or anything written from the vampire’s point of view. However, when Kingsley Amis got into his 80s, he said he now only wanted to read books that began with the line “a shot rang out”. Fair enough.
Well, call me a hack, but I have to say De Palma’s Carrie. Mortifying.
Hoskins at the end of The Long Good Friday.
Open Water: the woman, alone, deciding her own fate, rather than leaving it up to the sharks.
Well, I certainly don’t hate him, but I think Scorcese has been a spent force for more than a few years now. People seem to praise him almost reflexively, without much consideration, but he has been banging the same drum for years.
I think it depends on when you watch Magnolia, just as it matters, sometimes, how old you are when you read certain books. Discovering Salinger at 16 is different than discovering him at 45.
Magnolia works for me in part precisely because of the section many people loathe—Robards’ endless death scene. It’s endless for a reason: he’s in hell, and he’s trying to work his way out of it before he dies. This might mean more to you in middle age than in your teen years.
At least one way to measure genius is by influence, I think—has Tarantino actually had a meaningful influence on cinema? Depends on how we qualify ‘meaningful’, I think, and perhaps it’s too soon to tell. But I don’t see it, right now. I see a brilliant thief and synthesizer, which is something, but not as much as people think, I’d say.
But Bobby, influential in what way, exactly? He influenced people to imitate him—ironic coming from someone who has based his career on imitation—but when there is a ‘seismic shift’, that usually means things are rebuilt afterwards, made stronger. Has Tarantino done this? What did he change, for the better, in film? What can we point to that ‘shifted’ because of PF?
I don’t ask it rhetorically: I loved Pulp Fiction.
Scorcese has relied on the same stylistic tricks for the last ten years, usually, now, in the service of sub-par scripts. So the cinematic swirls—the speed of his shots, the frenetic pacing, the hyper-attentiveness, the blaring music—to what end, when the scripts have been so feeble? The Departed, even Gangs of New York—did anyone give a damn about these characters? At any rate, I didn’t, and at the end of the day these are personal responses, aren’t they.
Darroch, you’re dead right about Dieter. What the hell was he thinking with the remake? And the closing scene of Rescue Dawn may be the most embarrassing few minutes of his career. Bale, though, was captivating—pardon the awful word choice.
Herzog also does questionable things in his documentaries—lying, for instance. I still don’t know how to take it. This notion that he can play around with documentary and resist the notion of offering what he calls the ’accountant’s truth’—-to me it’s a questionable tactic.
But you don’t think it’s lying, Mark, when he has his subjects, like Dieter, say that they did things that they in fact didn’t? All the usual rhetoric about post-modern flourishes and liberties aside, in the documentary format people’s expectations are different: one doesn’t watch Fitzcarraldo that same way as Dieter. Whether Herzog likes it or not, most people approach documentaries expecting that ’accountant’s truth’. He can doll it up all he wants—turn his subjects into actors, sure—but let’s give it a new name, then. Quasi-documentary; even, to some extent, mock documentary, because it’s what he’s doing when he plays fast and loose with facts in documentaries.
I wonder Rodney if it’s a gender division—don’t want to make too much of this, because I don’t think I could fully defend it, frankly, but part of the reason The Departed meant little to me is because I saw the same brutish, excessively mannered male characters—Nicholson, mainly—doing their butch bravado shtick. The eternal variation on ‘You talkin’ to me?’ Call it the Bickle Effect. And the sole female character in The Departed was, to my mind, wholly pointless. And I also got the sense that the film itself existed almost entirely so that Scorcese could devise new ways to see his characters killed. His bloodlust has always been keen, and in lots of films it’s served him well.
…but I’m in a mood. And I must admit that I liked DiCaprio in The Aviator when he starts to lose his mind…impossible not to have sympathy.
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how all of these conclusions are based, finally, on whether we’re moved by something. Or someone. How to argue whether DiCaprio was moving in Departed? It’s a personal investment we make as viewers, or we don’t. I have to say it’s also to do, for me, with speed: I’ve thought for a long time, as I said earlier, that Scorcese uses freneticism as a substitute for character development, but I couldn’t possibly defend this, if in fact you ended up being moved by those characters. But I think generally filmmakers today have a stark terror of slowing down.
..good to see the chicks getting behind Martin, though, I suppose.
…but he opened the jail cell door—I am enjoying following your metaphors, darling—and what did he let out? I think you’re right; he doesn’t have an obligation to influence anyone anyhow anyplace. It’s not imperative. But the praise people throw at QT bears some scrutiny; I find people are far too eager to offer superlatives which ultimately have no meaning. I think we’ll need to wait some time to see if QT has had anything close to a positive influence. Maybe the better question is (and again, this isn’t rhetorical—I’m curious to know the answer: what good films do you think have come about directly because of his influence?
Can we parse ‘shit’ here, just a bit? What’s it mean? I don’t have too much to say for Babel or 21 Grams, largely because I thought the earnestness overwhelmed the craft at every turn; but much of Crash I’d be willing to get behind. But perhaps since this is the Hate Corner—my favourite so far—explaining the hate is out of this scope.
Also, Rodney, I’m with you on Do the Right Thing, absolutely—people far too easily mistook that closing violent burst as Lee’s political treatise, but this film finds him fence-sitting on the issue of violent vs. nonviolent resistance throughout, and then asking us to congratulate him for his fence-sitting finesse.
That being said, I found it exciting throughout, which is something. Not everything; something.
Bobby, I loved PF. I named my dog after Tarantino. But the dog died. There’s a moral there…and yes, he’s never topped PF. Never will, if you ask me. We’ll see, right?
I like to garble my parables, and I tend to think imitation is the last refuge of the scoundrel. It may be where people begin; but films that are nothing but imitation—what to make of these? And I’d suggest this is all that QT’s influence has produced. But again: we’ll see.
JR, I’d suggest that Tarantino has a pretty substantial mainstream base: Grindhouse might have tanked, but Kill Bill did massive business. In fact he’s very far from a rebel auteur, now; he hasn’t been for some time. And I was happy to see Grindhouse tank; it was the work of a 12 year old boy. Frenetic, frenzied, even, and I loved seeing the stuntwoman strapped to the car hood; but it was further proof, like it was needed, that Tarantino is devolving, not evolving. To which I am sure he’d say, yeah? Who the fuck cares about evolution anyway?
How wonderful! Folks who know Watkins! Punishment Park was dazzling: he foresaw much of what was going to happen in the media—television, particularly—some 30 years before it happened.
Well, I’ll take a breath first, all in the interest of civility.
Dillon’s character raped no one; he copped a long feel. He was a pig, but not entirely; that’s Haggis’ point. Even vile sacks of shit can contain multitudes. Trite to you, moving to me. So it goes; such is film.
As for Lee, of course he doesn’t have to take a side; but I would appreciate him so much more if he didn’t assume, as he seems to in every film I’ve seen of his, that I need an education in racial or religious dynamics. The issue is complex and two-sided. Is it really, Spike? Thank you; it hadn’t crossed my mind.
I’ve lived in Beirut; if Lee wants a lesson in the damage that competing ideologies can do, he’s welcome to call me.
Besides, even-handedness doesn’t suit Lee. He’s a polemicist, and he’s at his best as a filmmaker—I think—when he embraces this.
JR, I do think you’re fooling yourself about QT’s fanbase. I teach at a college here in Toronto, and when Grindhouse came out, all the pretty young things were keening to go. All the Bed & Kitchen Girls, as I call them. I mean, go figure. Of course, this is hardly scientific proof, is it?
Sorry my dear: what does ‘went yard’ mean? You’re right for sure: a tall order to top PF, but I think the boy got scared after Jackie Brown—a flawed exercise, but the work of an adult, I thought—did not do well, and since then, it’s been Boy’s Town all the way. Which is fine, I suppose—who am I to slam it? But I find no room for myself at all in his films, and I belong to his generation.
Well, Grindhouse…it was just so…resoundingly pointless. I know, I know. I should lighten up, right?
Um…do you actually memorize movie grosses? How brilliant is that.
Well Mr. W I can’t lay claim to expertise—I haven’t seen them all. But Punishment Park is stunning, and will resonate most certainly with anyone who thought Survivor was the nadir of television. Watkins saw it happening 30 years ago. I mean, strictly speaking the movie is apparently a take on the Chicago 7 trial, but it has so much to say about political machinations and propaganda; about government duplicity; and about media duplicity. He’s very bold. In La Commune, for instance, set in 1871, he has reporters walking around, microphones in hand, talking about the commune; talking to the communards. The commune rebellion is televised, in 1871. Just stunning stuff.
“Not that old”. Thanks, Bobby. Now I’m going to go eat MORE.
I kid. I’m goddamned fabulous for 43! I don’t look a day over 42. But now I feel like a grandmother. So if this turns into a Forum on Eating Well and Staying Regular and Staying Away from Bad Boys and Don’t Pick that Up You Don’t Know Where It’s Been, I’m clearly the person to turn to.
Bobby Darling, no offence to the Pretty Young Things. They’re not only a fan base; they’re my support base, in more ways than one.
I too liked Jackie Brown, really. Maybe I will see it again and re-evaluate.
By the way, re. Bed and Kitchen: this is an allusion. “She’s all bed and kitchen”. Line from a film. Spot it, and your reward will be great in heaven. I open this to everyone. Try not to Google.
Now I really must get to that food, as I am still feeling grandmotherly.
Points taken Darroch. Except to say I don’t know if it matters if WH uses the term or not; he knows what people’s expectations of a documentary are, and I think people may even except him to be a fabulist, to be visually daring, all of it; but I’m not sure if they expect him to futz about with facts. We can cede the point that there is no ‘objective truth’, sure; but I do think people approach documentaries expecting information, even education. If H thinks this it is wrongheaded or muddled or dangerously narrow thinking, so be it; except it isn’t. It’s a reasonable expectation. I think it’s fairer to say, building on a point you made, that H’s films are ultimately about him and him alone, and depending on my mood, or his subject matter, I can manage his ‘ecstatic’ narcissism very well. Dieter was just a stunning achievement, I thought; Grizzly Man also. In both cases I thought—H’s deceptions be damned—the films worked because H had found subjects that he thought were as engaging as he regards himself.
I like almost all of the Leslie Neilson Police-Squad films. I kid you not.
Okay, here it comes: The Big Chill. Lord yes. The funeral scene, for reasons I’ll spare you; William Hurt, trying to finish his Ph.D (“I’m not into that completion thing”), and Jeff Goldblum, pissing in the field: ’that’s what’s great about the outdoors, you know. It’s one giant toilet". How prescient is that?
New to The Auteurs? You Belong Here over 3 years ago
Hello,
English prof from Canada, which is a place found just above America but is colder and more anal retentive. There are also more donuts and curling rinks here.
I don’t think there has ever been a decent film about curling. There’s a forum discussion just waiting to happen.
Most recent viewings: Sorry, Wrong Number, and Au Hasard Balthazar. Both brilliant; no curling in either.
Love the new site. Congratulations.
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New to The Auteurs? You Belong Here over 3 years ago
Hi Bobby (and all!)
I haven’t seen ‘The Locket’ but will, now. And I’m almost ready to say that the final scene of Au Hasard is the saddest, ever. Excruciating but beautiful.
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Favorite Werner Herzog Film over 3 years ago
Oh, Little Dieter Needs to Fly. I mean, let’s give it up for Dieter. A lovely achievement.
Thoughts? Comments? Abuse?
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Who do you read? over 3 years ago
Martin Amis; Ian McEwan; EL Doctorow; Mamet; Philip Roth; Chomsky, Finkelstein, Hitchens; Ted Hughes, who is better than Plath (yes, I am trying to stir up trouble)…
I don’t read anything with a pink cover, or anything written from the vampire’s point of view. However, when Kingsley Amis got into his 80s, he said he now only wanted to read books that began with the line “a shot rang out”. Fair enough.
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Most Traumatic or Dramatic Film Endings over 3 years ago
Well, call me a hack, but I have to say De Palma’s Carrie. Mortifying.
Hoskins at the end of The Long Good Friday.
Open Water: the woman, alone, deciding her own fate, rather than leaving it up to the sharks.
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favorite films? over 3 years ago
Wetherby.
Singin’ in the Rain.
Red Beard.
The Conversation.
Strangelove.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
Well, I certainly don’t hate him, but I think Scorcese has been a spent force for more than a few years now. People seem to praise him almost reflexively, without much consideration, but he has been banging the same drum for years.
Bring it on.
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Can we talk about "Magnolia" for a bit? over 3 years ago
I think it depends on when you watch Magnolia, just as it matters, sometimes, how old you are when you read certain books. Discovering Salinger at 16 is different than discovering him at 45.
Magnolia works for me in part precisely because of the section many people loathe—Robards’ endless death scene. It’s endless for a reason: he’s in hell, and he’s trying to work his way out of it before he dies. This might mean more to you in middle age than in your teen years.
Or not. At any rate.
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QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
At least one way to measure genius is by influence, I think—has Tarantino actually had a meaningful influence on cinema? Depends on how we qualify ‘meaningful’, I think, and perhaps it’s too soon to tell. But I don’t see it, right now. I see a brilliant thief and synthesizer, which is something, but not as much as people think, I’d say.
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QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
But Bobby, influential in what way, exactly? He influenced people to imitate him—ironic coming from someone who has based his career on imitation—but when there is a ‘seismic shift’, that usually means things are rebuilt afterwards, made stronger. Has Tarantino done this? What did he change, for the better, in film? What can we point to that ‘shifted’ because of PF?
I don’t ask it rhetorically: I loved Pulp Fiction.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
Hi Rodney,
Scorcese has relied on the same stylistic tricks for the last ten years, usually, now, in the service of sub-par scripts. So the cinematic swirls—the speed of his shots, the frenetic pacing, the hyper-attentiveness, the blaring music—to what end, when the scripts have been so feeble? The Departed, even Gangs of New York—did anyone give a damn about these characters? At any rate, I didn’t, and at the end of the day these are personal responses, aren’t they.
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Favorite Werner Herzog Film over 3 years ago
Darroch, you’re dead right about Dieter. What the hell was he thinking with the remake? And the closing scene of Rescue Dawn may be the most embarrassing few minutes of his career. Bale, though, was captivating—pardon the awful word choice.
Herzog also does questionable things in his documentaries—lying, for instance. I still don’t know how to take it. This notion that he can play around with documentary and resist the notion of offering what he calls the ’accountant’s truth’—-to me it’s a questionable tactic.
Go to Comment
Favorite Werner Herzog Film over 3 years ago
But you don’t think it’s lying, Mark, when he has his subjects, like Dieter, say that they did things that they in fact didn’t? All the usual rhetoric about post-modern flourishes and liberties aside, in the documentary format people’s expectations are different: one doesn’t watch Fitzcarraldo that same way as Dieter. Whether Herzog likes it or not, most people approach documentaries expecting that ’accountant’s truth’. He can doll it up all he wants—turn his subjects into actors, sure—but let’s give it a new name, then. Quasi-documentary; even, to some extent, mock documentary, because it’s what he’s doing when he plays fast and loose with facts in documentaries.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
I wonder Rodney if it’s a gender division—don’t want to make too much of this, because I don’t think I could fully defend it, frankly, but part of the reason The Departed meant little to me is because I saw the same brutish, excessively mannered male characters—Nicholson, mainly—doing their butch bravado shtick. The eternal variation on ‘You talkin’ to me?’ Call it the Bickle Effect. And the sole female character in The Departed was, to my mind, wholly pointless. And I also got the sense that the film itself existed almost entirely so that Scorcese could devise new ways to see his characters killed. His bloodlust has always been keen, and in lots of films it’s served him well.
…but I’m in a mood. And I must admit that I liked DiCaprio in The Aviator when he starts to lose his mind…impossible not to have sympathy.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
It’s interesting, isn’t it, how all of these conclusions are based, finally, on whether we’re moved by something. Or someone. How to argue whether DiCaprio was moving in Departed? It’s a personal investment we make as viewers, or we don’t. I have to say it’s also to do, for me, with speed: I’ve thought for a long time, as I said earlier, that Scorcese uses freneticism as a substitute for character development, but I couldn’t possibly defend this, if in fact you ended up being moved by those characters. But I think generally filmmakers today have a stark terror of slowing down.
..good to see the chicks getting behind Martin, though, I suppose.
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QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
Hi again Mr. W
…but he opened the jail cell door—I am enjoying following your metaphors, darling—and what did he let out? I think you’re right; he doesn’t have an obligation to influence anyone anyhow anyplace. It’s not imperative. But the praise people throw at QT bears some scrutiny; I find people are far too eager to offer superlatives which ultimately have no meaning. I think we’ll need to wait some time to see if QT has had anything close to a positive influence. Maybe the better question is (and again, this isn’t rhetorical—I’m curious to know the answer: what good films do you think have come about directly because of his influence?
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
Hi Kifah,
Can we parse ‘shit’ here, just a bit? What’s it mean? I don’t have too much to say for Babel or 21 Grams, largely because I thought the earnestness overwhelmed the craft at every turn; but much of Crash I’d be willing to get behind. But perhaps since this is the Hate Corner—my favourite so far—explaining the hate is out of this scope.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
Also, Rodney, I’m with you on Do the Right Thing, absolutely—people far too easily mistook that closing violent burst as Lee’s political treatise, but this film finds him fence-sitting on the issue of violent vs. nonviolent resistance throughout, and then asking us to congratulate him for his fence-sitting finesse.
That being said, I found it exciting throughout, which is something. Not everything; something.
Go to Comment
QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
Bobby, I loved PF. I named my dog after Tarantino. But the dog died. There’s a moral there…and yes, he’s never topped PF. Never will, if you ask me. We’ll see, right?
I like to garble my parables, and I tend to think imitation is the last refuge of the scoundrel. It may be where people begin; but films that are nothing but imitation—what to make of these? And I’d suggest this is all that QT’s influence has produced. But again: we’ll see.
JR, I’d suggest that Tarantino has a pretty substantial mainstream base: Grindhouse might have tanked, but Kill Bill did massive business. In fact he’s very far from a rebel auteur, now; he hasn’t been for some time. And I was happy to see Grindhouse tank; it was the work of a 12 year old boy. Frenetic, frenzied, even, and I loved seeing the stuntwoman strapped to the car hood; but it was further proof, like it was needed, that Tarantino is devolving, not evolving. To which I am sure he’d say, yeah? Who the fuck cares about evolution anyway?
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Peter Watkins over 3 years ago
How wonderful! Folks who know Watkins! Punishment Park was dazzling: he foresaw much of what was going to happen in the media—television, particularly—some 30 years before it happened.
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the hate corner over 3 years ago
Well, I’ll take a breath first, all in the interest of civility.
Dillon’s character raped no one; he copped a long feel. He was a pig, but not entirely; that’s Haggis’ point. Even vile sacks of shit can contain multitudes. Trite to you, moving to me. So it goes; such is film.
As for Lee, of course he doesn’t have to take a side; but I would appreciate him so much more if he didn’t assume, as he seems to in every film I’ve seen of his, that I need an education in racial or religious dynamics. The issue is complex and two-sided. Is it really, Spike? Thank you; it hadn’t crossed my mind.
I’ve lived in Beirut; if Lee wants a lesson in the damage that competing ideologies can do, he’s welcome to call me.
Besides, even-handedness doesn’t suit Lee. He’s a polemicist, and he’s at his best as a filmmaker—I think—when he embraces this.
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QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
JR, I do think you’re fooling yourself about QT’s fanbase. I teach at a college here in Toronto, and when Grindhouse came out, all the pretty young things were keening to go. All the Bed & Kitchen Girls, as I call them. I mean, go figure. Of course, this is hardly scientific proof, is it?
Sorry my dear: what does ‘went yard’ mean? You’re right for sure: a tall order to top PF, but I think the boy got scared after Jackie Brown—a flawed exercise, but the work of an adult, I thought—did not do well, and since then, it’s been Boy’s Town all the way. Which is fine, I suppose—who am I to slam it? But I find no room for myself at all in his films, and I belong to his generation.
Well, Grindhouse…it was just so…resoundingly pointless. I know, I know. I should lighten up, right?
Um…do you actually memorize movie grosses? How brilliant is that.
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Peter Watkins over 3 years ago
Well Mr. W I can’t lay claim to expertise—I haven’t seen them all. But Punishment Park is stunning, and will resonate most certainly with anyone who thought Survivor was the nadir of television. Watkins saw it happening 30 years ago. I mean, strictly speaking the movie is apparently a take on the Chicago 7 trial, but it has so much to say about political machinations and propaganda; about government duplicity; and about media duplicity. He’s very bold. In La Commune, for instance, set in 1871, he has reporters walking around, microphones in hand, talking about the commune; talking to the communards. The commune rebellion is televised, in 1871. Just stunning stuff.
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Age / Level of education? (An informal poll) over 3 years ago
43; M.A., English and Philosophy. I am now realizing how very, very old I am. You are all BABIES.
As Liz Lemon would say, I have to go talk to some food about this. I may or may not be back. Ahem.
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Age / Level of education? (An informal poll) over 3 years ago
“Not that old”. Thanks, Bobby. Now I’m going to go eat MORE.
I kid. I’m goddamned fabulous for 43! I don’t look a day over 42. But now I feel like a grandmother. So if this turns into a Forum on Eating Well and Staying Regular and Staying Away from Bad Boys and Don’t Pick that Up You Don’t Know Where It’s Been, I’m clearly the person to turn to.
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QUENTIN TARANTINO over 3 years ago
Bobby Darling, no offence to the Pretty Young Things. They’re not only a fan base; they’re my support base, in more ways than one.
I too liked Jackie Brown, really. Maybe I will see it again and re-evaluate.
By the way, re. Bed and Kitchen: this is an allusion. “She’s all bed and kitchen”. Line from a film. Spot it, and your reward will be great in heaven. I open this to everyone. Try not to Google.
Now I really must get to that food, as I am still feeling grandmotherly.
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Favorite Werner Herzog Film over 3 years ago
Points taken Darroch. Except to say I don’t know if it matters if WH uses the term or not; he knows what people’s expectations of a documentary are, and I think people may even except him to be a fabulist, to be visually daring, all of it; but I’m not sure if they expect him to futz about with facts. We can cede the point that there is no ‘objective truth’, sure; but I do think people approach documentaries expecting information, even education. If H thinks this it is wrongheaded or muddled or dangerously narrow thinking, so be it; except it isn’t. It’s a reasonable expectation. I think it’s fairer to say, building on a point you made, that H’s films are ultimately about him and him alone, and depending on my mood, or his subject matter, I can manage his ‘ecstatic’ narcissism very well. Dieter was just a stunning achievement, I thought; Grizzly Man also. In both cases I thought—H’s deceptions be damned—the films worked because H had found subjects that he thought were as engaging as he regards himself.
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Age / Level of education? (An informal poll) over 3 years ago
Rodney, your response was hilarious. I mean I feel you, as they say.
As I said, I’m, like, Moses-era old.
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Age / Level of education? (An informal poll) over 3 years ago
Randyman, are you kidding? 53? 10 short years between us. Let’s get married tomorrow.
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Films you love but most people hate. over 3 years ago
I like almost all of the Leslie Neilson Police-Squad films. I kid you not.
Okay, here it comes: The Big Chill. Lord yes. The funeral scene, for reasons I’ll spare you; William Hurt, trying to finish his Ph.D (“I’m not into that completion thing”), and Jeff Goldblum, pissing in the field: ’that’s what’s great about the outdoors, you know. It’s one giant toilet". How prescient is that?
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