Your Favourite Avant-Garde film and fimaker?
Marker-Bunuel-Dali-Brakhage-Deren-Maddin-Dreyer-McLaren-Leger-ManRay-Clair-Richter-
the list goes on,,,,,,,,
I think it is about time Criterion released more Avant-Garde films ( I know they have Brakhage) especially Deren you can’t get them anywhere!
Kino has Avant garde DVD’S and Unseen Cinema-great box set
check out www.filmpreservation.org-avant garde coming out next March
Your views on the development of temporal and spatial contiguity and continuity in realtion narratological impulses and the cinematic tableaux- during the era of Primitive Cinema 1895-1910. Any thoughts of the films and filmmakers of this early experimentation? Thoughts on the proximity of shots in relation to character psychology?
early Lumiere and Edison actualities—Melies magical cinema-Griffith of course!
The big 4-Chaplin-Lloyd Langdon Keaton
Cabiria-Intolerance The General-The Kid
The Golem-Lon Chaney sr
Stroheim King Vidor De Mille-John Ford Raoul Walsh early experimental-Richter Man Ray etc
list goes on and on,,,,,,,,,,,,
The steadycam was first introduced in the 70’s and used by different filmmakers such as Kubrick, Carpenter, Scorsese (Raging Bull) etc
I love the use of the steadycam in Full Metal Jacket, The Shining, etc and Carpenter’s Halloween. Moreover, the steadycam represented ‘flotation’ in such that the flotation of the camera represented the demon, ghoul etc or in the case of Halloween, Michael as it pursues through the landscape its unsuspecting victims.
Now, with the introduction of semiotics to cinema in the 60’s by Metz, can we observe the steadycam shots of Kubrick et al (long takes limtied editing) within the parameters of linguistics? . Is the long take- steadycam just like a paragraph in a book? How would you think Andre Bazin if he were alive in the 70’s would have thought of the steadycam?
Bazin championed the Neo-Realists limited editing and film keeping it real Bazin was against editing the fragmentation of the image-Kubrick’s steadycam with its long takes and limited editing I would argue would have appealed to Bazin for its reality effect-affect
Resnais the Left bank filmmaker thematically in his films used memory eg-Marienbad—a difficult filmmaker in which the narrative hard to digest does get constructed by the spectator themselves. Bazin might have had a problem with Resnais and his complexity (memory flashbacks etc) as opposed to the Neorealists-keeping it real and easy to understand.
I was taught in a Horror course that Carpenter used the steadycam-looks like my Prof. was wrong!
Let me know if I’m wrong!
Weir was part of the New wave of australian filmmakers who brought their product on an international scale. The Rock that envelopes the girl’s is both eerie, phallic shape and the caves of the rock are metapohrically vaginal recesses. The spectator is drawn into the maze of the rock. The haunting music as well as the dissolves, canted camera angles and sense of surrealism contribute to the overall feeling of death with no escape. The anthropomorphic rock caused the girl’s disappearance and ironically one could argue that the headmistress of the school is really the one who represented ‘evil’ A brilliant film that not only represents that what you can’t see within the diegetic space of the film is what really scares you. Much scarier than today’s crap-Hostel, etc,,,
You canget Wavelength at Robart’s Library University of Toronto -but you’ll need a student number-great film also Snow’s Back Forth is excellent hallucinatory
It’s all in one own’s interpretation – you can extrapolate interpret an avant garde film with a narrative-even if it’s a fragmented narrative at best—a good example of a feature avant garde film is L’age Do’r running time approx one hour anti-clericism -with it’s attack on religion-Dali-and Bunuel were also into entomology-Can you interpret Bunuel’s feature length surrealistic films-The Milky Way-Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoise etc as avant-garde?-I was also taught that Dreyer’s Passion of Joan of Arc-the flatness of space-canted camera angles-proximity of close-ups and religous iconography constituted ‘avant-garde’
there is also the debate -what is the difference between Dada and surrealism? Rene Clair’s The Straw Hat?
Cheers Dave
I’m not in school right now-took the year off and will be back next year-my thoughts were not meant to be pretentious -and not a lowly prawn on a stick-maybe you should go to your mother and she will give you a good spanking!
Continuity and contiguous space was a challenge to the early pioneers-Lumiere’s in their actualities did understand this and it is evident in some of their films-such as the Water Gardener-think of how theater was shown to the public-the early pioneers used this model when making their films-eg static camera-actors entering the frame from the left would exit right of the frame etc,,eyeline matches and match on action was also developed in these early years.
Griffith did not invent the close-up but used it to show the psychology of his characters -the early spectators of cinema were immigrants-uneducated and out of work narrative space had to be coherent to these early spectators as they were the ones who put the money forth to the theaters.
So 5 if you’re a real cinephile you would lock yourself into your closet, put on your collection of Russ Meyer films and give it a good whacking,,,,,,,,,,,
thxs for the replies-you can always learn from other people that is why I posted this-would love to see Edison’s Frankenstein with Charles Ogle-It’s not on Kino’s Edison box set-I live near Toronto-(that’s in Canada info for our American neighbours!) Can I get Frankenstein anywhere?
Interesting that Kurosawa has been seen as a humanatarian director-and long shots- distances spectator from subject-close-ups would emphasize Kurosawa’s art as humanatarian and in some other films from other directors Brechtian distanciation-can you compare Kurosawa’s crowd scenes with Eisenstein’s crowd scenes (no single protagonist) and his notion of crowd being the protagonist?
Can you explain theatrical blocking please?
Parallels between old and new-hmmmm how about German Expressionism and Guy Maddin? It’s obvious and its documented that Maddin employs this technique- Brand Upon the Brain is one hell of a film! What about the temporal spatial displacement in Maddin’s films and temporal spatial displacement in the montage of the Russian formalists or Goddard of the French New Wave?
Thxs Dave
interesting never looked at it from that viewpoint-I always thought Bazin would disapprove of his jump cuts that were done by Goddard due to economy-low budget-also spatial and temporal displacement occurs on the screen and disorients the spectator-yes film is fragments of time and space – if the eye blinks and the head does not move than space stays the same unless something moves during the blink-car moves etc,, if the eye blinks and the head moves to gain a new viewpoint of space than I would agree the comparison between the jump cut and the eye blinking
now-Eisenstein said that film is thought can we think of eisenstein’s argument as the beginning of the Autuer theory championed by the Nouvelle Vague but only 30 or so years sooner?
would be neat to examine jump cuts with persistence of vision too
just bought Lubitsch Musicals-good operettas-with the Lubitsch Touch
Wilder and Wyler were reported to say at Ernst’ funeral
Wilder -“Too bad no more Lubitsch” Wyler -“What’s worse no more Lubitsh films”
Your thoughts on the Lubitsch touch,,,,,
let’s talk about Altman and his use of the zoom lens-most famous shot occured in Nashville-zoom lens exploring space crowd of people until it focuses in on Lily Tomlin fixated on the country singer- proximity of shot= psychologically induced characters
now application of semiotics with the long take zoom lens-=grammatical paragraph ?
your thoughts
lets see if I remember this crap-signifier is the symbol and signified is the meaning of the symbol?
Also there is the visual and audotory side of Metz’ semiotics
so the zoom lens could symbolize the over fetishization of a woman-eg Lily Tomlin-and the look looks back at the spectator and the object of the look eg the country singer
any thoughts on the appartus-the appartus is absent from production but present during projection-or the space between the projected image from the appartus and the screen itself-what is in this space? Is it tangible? Can we see it? Metaphors and signifiers attached to this space?
Help! Having trouble watching the films available online for 5 bucks from Criterion. The films pause 2 times every 5 seconds so a 80 minute film will take twice as long to watch. Does anyone have this problem and does Criterion know about this? Also can I notify them about the problem?
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
Your Favourite Avant-Garde film and fimaker?
Marker-Bunuel-Dali-Brakhage-Deren-Maddin-Dreyer-McLaren-Leger-ManRay-Clair-Richter-
the list goes on,,,,,,,,
Go to Comment
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
I think it is about time Criterion released more Avant-Garde films ( I know they have Brakhage) especially Deren you can’t get them anywhere!
Kino has Avant garde DVD’S and Unseen Cinema-great box set
check out www.filmpreservation.org-avant garde coming out next March
Go to Comment
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
Hey Criterion-how about a disc of Maya Deren films?
Please resond
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Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
Your views on the development of temporal and spatial contiguity and continuity in realtion narratological impulses and the cinematic tableaux- during the era of Primitive Cinema 1895-1910. Any thoughts of the films and filmmakers of this early experimentation? Thoughts on the proximity of shots in relation to character psychology?
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
Hey guys-film scholars! Let’s hear a response!
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what is cinema? over 3 years ago
Film-fragments of time and space
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Silent Films over 3 years ago
early Lumiere and Edison actualities—Melies magical cinema-Griffith of course!
The big 4-Chaplin-Lloyd Langdon Keaton
Cabiria-Intolerance The General-The Kid
The Golem-Lon Chaney sr
Stroheim King Vidor De Mille-John Ford Raoul Walsh early experimental-Richter Man Ray etc
list goes on and on,,,,,,,,,,,,
Go to Comment
Kubrick and the Steadycam over 3 years ago
The steadycam was first introduced in the 70’s and used by different filmmakers such as Kubrick, Carpenter, Scorsese (Raging Bull) etc
I love the use of the steadycam in Full Metal Jacket, The Shining, etc and Carpenter’s Halloween. Moreover, the steadycam represented ‘flotation’ in such that the flotation of the camera represented the demon, ghoul etc or in the case of Halloween, Michael as it pursues through the landscape its unsuspecting victims.
Now, with the introduction of semiotics to cinema in the 60’s by Metz, can we observe the steadycam shots of Kubrick et al (long takes limtied editing) within the parameters of linguistics? . Is the long take- steadycam just like a paragraph in a book? How would you think Andre Bazin if he were alive in the 70’s would have thought of the steadycam?
Go to Comment
Directors that consistently make terrible films over 3 years ago
Although he’s dead-I think Ed Wood!
Go to Comment
Kubrick and the Steadycam over 3 years ago
Bazin championed the Neo-Realists limited editing and film keeping it real Bazin was against editing the fragmentation of the image-Kubrick’s steadycam with its long takes and limited editing I would argue would have appealed to Bazin for its reality effect-affect
Resnais the Left bank filmmaker thematically in his films used memory eg-Marienbad—a difficult filmmaker in which the narrative hard to digest does get constructed by the spectator themselves. Bazin might have had a problem with Resnais and his complexity (memory flashbacks etc) as opposed to the Neorealists-keeping it real and easy to understand.
I was taught in a Horror course that Carpenter used the steadycam-looks like my Prof. was wrong!
Let me know if I’m wrong!
Go to Comment
One of the Scariest Movies I Know! over 3 years ago
Weir was part of the New wave of australian filmmakers who brought their product on an international scale. The Rock that envelopes the girl’s is both eerie, phallic shape and the caves of the rock are metapohrically vaginal recesses. The spectator is drawn into the maze of the rock. The haunting music as well as the dissolves, canted camera angles and sense of surrealism contribute to the overall feeling of death with no escape. The anthropomorphic rock caused the girl’s disappearance and ironically one could argue that the headmistress of the school is really the one who represented ‘evil’ A brilliant film that not only represents that what you can’t see within the diegetic space of the film is what really scares you. Much scarier than today’s crap-Hostel, etc,,,
Go to Comment
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
You canget Wavelength at Robart’s Library University of Toronto -but you’ll need a student number-great film also Snow’s Back Forth is excellent hallucinatory
Go to Comment
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
There is a great dvd on the short films of David Lynch pretty wild stuff
also there is Jan Svankmajer and Ken Russell
Go to Comment
Avant-Garde Your Favourite Film and Filmaker over 3 years ago
It’s all in one own’s interpretation – you can extrapolate interpret an avant garde film with a narrative-even if it’s a fragmented narrative at best—a good example of a feature avant garde film is L’age Do’r running time approx one hour anti-clericism -with it’s attack on religion-Dali-and Bunuel were also into entomology-Can you interpret Bunuel’s feature length surrealistic films-The Milky Way-Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoise etc as avant-garde?-I was also taught that Dreyer’s Passion of Joan of Arc-the flatness of space-canted camera angles-proximity of close-ups and religous iconography constituted ‘avant-garde’
there is also the debate -what is the difference between Dada and surrealism? Rene Clair’s The Straw Hat?
Cheers Dave
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
I’m not in school right now-took the year off and will be back next year-my thoughts were not meant to be pretentious -and not a lowly prawn on a stick-maybe you should go to your mother and she will give you a good spanking!
Continuity and contiguous space was a challenge to the early pioneers-Lumiere’s in their actualities did understand this and it is evident in some of their films-such as the Water Gardener-think of how theater was shown to the public-the early pioneers used this model when making their films-eg static camera-actors entering the frame from the left would exit right of the frame etc,,eyeline matches and match on action was also developed in these early years.
Griffith did not invent the close-up but used it to show the psychology of his characters -the early spectators of cinema were immigrants-uneducated and out of work narrative space had to be coherent to these early spectators as they were the ones who put the money forth to the theaters.
So 5 if you’re a real cinephile you would lock yourself into your closet, put on your collection of Russ Meyer films and give it a good whacking,,,,,,,,,,,
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
thxs for the replies-you can always learn from other people that is why I posted this-would love to see Edison’s Frankenstein with Charles Ogle-It’s not on Kino’s Edison box set-I live near Toronto-(that’s in Canada info for our American neighbours!) Can I get Frankenstein anywhere?
Interesting that Kurosawa has been seen as a humanatarian director-and long shots- distances spectator from subject-close-ups would emphasize Kurosawa’s art as humanatarian and in some other films from other directors Brechtian distanciation-can you compare Kurosawa’s crowd scenes with Eisenstein’s crowd scenes (no single protagonist) and his notion of crowd being the protagonist?
Can you explain theatrical blocking please?
Parallels between old and new-hmmmm how about German Expressionism and Guy Maddin? It’s obvious and its documented that Maddin employs this technique- Brand Upon the Brain is one hell of a film! What about the temporal spatial displacement in Maddin’s films and temporal spatial displacement in the montage of the Russian formalists or Goddard of the French New Wave?
Thxs Dave
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
thxs for the info
now lets talk about Goddard and his jump cuts,,,,,,,,,,
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
interesting never looked at it from that viewpoint-I always thought Bazin would disapprove of his jump cuts that were done by Goddard due to economy-low budget-also spatial and temporal displacement occurs on the screen and disorients the spectator-yes film is fragments of time and space – if the eye blinks and the head does not move than space stays the same unless something moves during the blink-car moves etc,, if the eye blinks and the head moves to gain a new viewpoint of space than I would agree the comparison between the jump cut and the eye blinking
now-Eisenstein said that film is thought can we think of eisenstein’s argument as the beginning of the Autuer theory championed by the Nouvelle Vague but only 30 or so years sooner?
would be neat to examine jump cuts with persistence of vision too
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
just bought Lubitsch Musicals-good operettas-with the Lubitsch Touch
Wilder and Wyler were reported to say at Ernst’ funeral
Wilder
-“Too bad no more Lubitsch” Wyler -“What’s worse no more Lubitsh films”Your thoughts on the Lubitsch touch,,,,,
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
let’s talk about Altman and his use of the zoom lens-most famous shot occured in Nashville-zoom lens exploring space crowd of people until it focuses in on Lily Tomlin fixated on the country singer- proximity of shot= psychologically induced characters
now application of semiotics with the long take zoom lens-=grammatical paragraph ?
your thoughts
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
lets see if I remember this crap-signifier is the symbol and signified is the meaning of the symbol?
Also there is the visual and audotory side of Metz’ semiotics
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
so the zoom lens could symbolize the over fetishization of a woman-eg Lily Tomlin-and the look looks back at the spectator and the object of the look eg the country singer
Go to Comment
Temporality and Space in Primitive Cinema over 3 years ago
any thoughts on the appartus-the appartus is absent from production but present during projection-or the space between the projected image from the appartus and the screen itself-what is in this space? Is it tangible? Can we see it? Metaphors and signifiers attached to this space?
Go to Comment
Criterion Online Films over 3 years ago
Help! Having trouble watching the films available online for 5 bucks from Criterion. The films pause 2 times every 5 seconds so a 80 minute film will take twice as long to watch. Does anyone have this problem and does Criterion know about this? Also can I notify them about the problem?
Go to Comment
WHO IS / WAS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL FILM ACTRESS EVER? over 3 years ago
Edna May Oliver
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