I’ve found it impossible to decide between the two. The echo of his voice in the vast chamber is so haunting and memorable and yet it is clear that he “escapes” if only tragically which is beautifully explicated with the chair surrounded by sky.
Is there a right answer? I know Gilliam has a difficult time deciding between the two as well. Perhaps one of them is more in keeping with the tone of the film but I’m still helplessly mystified as to which.
Sam’s final escape is yet another fantasy/dream that lasts beyond the end of the film. I believe that Sam finally escapes the torments of his life through insanity. It keeps him from becoming a drone like the rest and yet his goal of saving the woman he loves and having a happy life is not accomplished in reality. Lowry sort of wins in that insanity but in a hauntingly tragic way.
I’ve not seen Salo but I have read quite a bit about it including Gary Indiana’s BFI critique, Ben Simington’s excellent essay and countless forum and review posts. From what I can gather it is completely repulsive and a unique and valuable masterpiece.
It is however one of the few artistically lauded films that I have adamantly refused to watch.
A faction of the crowd that recommends the film seem to enjoy the extreme nature of its content, reveling in it’s extraordinary perversity pausing only to make sure that there is a sign on the door reading “Don’t worry. I’m appreciating it for it’s artistic merit.”
Another group seems to fear the jibes of their liberated contemporaries quoting it to be disgusting and vile but nonetheless important. They don’t really seem to be able to articulate it’s importance other than it being a curio that delineates how extreme a work can be and still be called art.
I’m not really interested in the “What is art and who determines that?” question in this case.
I’m simply interested in hearing, from those who have seen it, why it is important for me as a rabid film enthusiast to subject himself to the images that Passolini has to offer here? Simply because it’s there? Because it was created by a great auteur?
Justin Traviss – What I want from the film is what I want from any experience. That it be edifying in some fashion, whether it be intellectually, physically, spiritually, sensually, etc. Films, as with other forms of art, have an experiential distinction in that I can choose whether to experience it or not. With Salo I have not come across a reason to experience it other than being a completist (seeing all of Passolini’s films, seeing all the Criterion films, or seeing “hype” films like you mentioned) and that isn’t a strong enough reason to me anymore. I similarly don’t like the idea of the film’s that i watch being trophies. I want “War and Peace” to actually be a good story or at least be extraordinary in terms of craft, not just an obnoxiously long book. That being said, that denial gives the film a particular mystique that is as tantalizing as the grass the sign tells you to stay off of.
Mr. Sweetums (genius name) – Nothing should not be seen? Dangerous maxim. Would you agree then, that it aught to be seen simply because it exists? Is this true only because it is a fabrication and not a documentation or does this hold true for anything that can be taken in visually? Honestly curious what you think, not trying to bait you.
I certainly haven’t seen all of his stuff but everything I’ve seen is consistently better than pretty much anything out there. Is there a Leonard Part 6 in his oeuvre?
Few films still make me laugh out loud especially if I’m by myself. But there are a few:
The Big Lebowski
The Great Muppet Caper
Sherlock Jr.
The Great Muppet Caper
Actually love is pretty strong and its more that I love what it was supposed to be and not what it was. The director’s cut was an extraordinary improvement over the theatrical cut and the Goldsmith score transformed the film for me.
And Tim Curry’s Darkness is still the best cinematic devil ever.
I did read the novel and both versions, understandably, omit the final scene. Kelvin makes it to the planet and has an interaction with its surface. It is in my estimation one of the few articulations of what it would be like to encounter and intelligence completely separate from human understanding.
I do think the Tarkovsky version is better (obnoxiously slow but better) but Soderbergh’s was such a ballsy move. I really respect him for his adaptation even though I was hoping for something different. Both took the source material and made it their own. We still haven’t seen Stanislaw Lem’s Solaris on the screen.
Like deciding on a favorite movie this is difficult for the true cinephile but I’d love to hear what was the most memorable for you.
One of my own favorite experiences was seeing “Rear Window” in the theater for the first time. It wasn’t the picture or the sound or the size that knocked me out. It was the end of the film when Jimmy Stewart uses flash bulbs to blind Thorwald.
I had seen the film countless times on television and small screens and the scene was always interesting but not particularly terrifying. However seeing in the completely dark theater after my eyes had adjusted to the darkness, when that first flash bulb goes I was blinded in the same way that Thorwald was. This might seem like a no-brainer but I was floored.
Hitchcock had created an effect that actually affected me physically. I couldn’t believe the level of craftsmanship and understanding that created such a small but dynamic effect. I’ve never felt that in the cinema before or since.
Has anyone seen this recently in an actual theater in 3D? Of course I’ve seen the Criterion DVD but I would love to see this ridiculous film on the big screen so the spear can poke right into my eye.
Any art houses in LA perhaps that have a 3D print and the proper glasses?
Has anyone seen Flesh For Frankenstein recently in an actual theater in 3D. Of course I’ve seen the Criterion DVD but I would love to see this ridiculous film on the big screen so the spear can poke right into my eye.
Any art houses in LA perhaps that have a 3D print and the proper glasses?
I don’t really have alot to back this up apart from every last bit of information I have ever heard about the man makes me angry. He should have been drawn and quartered simply for messing with Hitchcock on “Rebecca”. Also, the “O” doesn’t stand for anything. What an ass! Sure, he’s dead and all but my hate for him lives on!
I watch bad television on purpose sometimes just to keep myself in check. First off, I need to allow myself a opportunity to not take everything so seriously and just laugh and/or be mindlessly entertained. Two, even in shit television I can find something that either was a good idea pulled off badly (perhaps it would have worked better in another show). Three, even bad TV helps me learn. I think to myself “why” did this show not work? What would I have done different? What demographic does this appeal to? How would I make a better show that appeals to the same demographic? These aren’t always questions I have answers to, but they are things to ponder. I prefer the sort of films we all seem to love here, but me deciding to just waste some time watching SURVIVOR 3 doesn’t affect my feelings for Bergman or Kurosawa. Hell, I can think of a lot worse things out there that are the downfall of modern society as I see it.
Now to the actual topic of the forum:
End of the Spear – I was hoping it would be a little closer to The Mission. Horrifyingly bad.
Transformers – Was hoping it would be bad like the cartoon movie. Fell asleep 4 times.
The Day the Earth Stood Still – The new one. Heard it was garbage. Wanted to believe otherwise. It’s pretty god awful.
I’m sure there are others but I’ve put them out of my mind.
Transfomers, proving that there is a god of cinema.
To my eternal shame – Return of the Jedi: Special Edition (In my defense I had seen it a couple days before in the theater and the night before this showing I had done an all-nighter. I know, it’s not a good excuse)
Driving 4 hours to a theater north of Chicago to see “Blade Runner” for the first time on the big screen. Then driving 4 hours back to find out the next morning that it was playing in town. The whole trip (dinner, tickets, gas) cost $100. Worth every last cent.
Overrated, yeah but also over-criticized. Harmless if somewhat cloying. It didn’t talk down to its audience but didn’t challenge it either. Wouldn’t make it into my top 10 for the year but I was far more entertained than I was by Benjamin Button. Happy that Danny Boyle was recognized but, like so many Academy Award winners, wish it had been for a different film or for his body of work. Meh. Life goes on.
Top 10 in no particular order:
Mishima.
Kinsey.
Amadeus.
Chaplin.
Auto Focus.
Donnie Brasco.
Lawrence of Arabia.
The Passion of Joan of Arc.
Heavenly Creatures.
Quiz Show.
Yeah I was definitely disappointed with Breathless the first time I watched it as are almost all of my film history students. I bought it sight unseen after having been completely seduced by “The 400 Blows” and pretty much the rest of Truffaut’s oeuvre, and found the film to be a tremendous bore.
I have since grown to enjoy it more than I did the first time but it really has more to do with getting my head in the time when it was made. I think it will always be extraordinarily important historically but I don’t find it to be timeless in the least. “The Jazz Singer” is an important historical film as well but one that I find to be an extremely unpleasant viewing experience.
Loved Contempt though.
Donnie Darko. I know I’m wrong but I was totally underwhelmed.
Transformers. Few people told me they loved it but most said they were entertained. I fell asleep multiple times.
Ghostbusters. Yeah I know. To my great shame. I keep wanting to laugh more when I watch it.
I’d love to hear nominations for the greatest single cut in cinema history. Obviously there are a myriad magnificent examples and I’m sure you all have hundreds but what single cut really knocks you out every single time?
The one that springs to mind for me is from “Lawrence of Arabia”. Lawrence extinguishing the flame of the match – cut to the desert.
Just got the chance to see it in 70mm at the Egyptian in Hollywood. Breathtaking!
Which final shot is better? Sky or Silo? over 3 years ago
I’ve found it impossible to decide between the two. The echo of his voice in the vast chamber is so haunting and memorable and yet it is clear that he “escapes” if only tragically which is beautifully explicated with the chair surrounded by sky.
Is there a right answer? I know Gilliam has a difficult time deciding between the two as well. Perhaps one of them is more in keeping with the tone of the film but I’m still helplessly mystified as to which.
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Is it in his head or has Sam been Big Brothered..? over 3 years ago
Sam’s final escape is yet another fantasy/dream that lasts beyond the end of the film. I believe that Sam finally escapes the torments of his life through insanity. It keeps him from becoming a drone like the rest and yet his goal of saving the woman he loves and having a happy life is not accomplished in reality. Lowry sort of wins in that insanity but in a hauntingly tragic way.
Go to Comment
WHICH DIRECTORS...NOT...CURRENTLY REPRESENTED IN THE CRITERION COLLECTION DO YOU WANT TO SEE INCLUDED? over 3 years ago
Echoing earlier post on animation. Ocelot should have far greater exposure.
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The most beautiful films? over 3 years ago
Hands down “In the Mood for Love”. Every single shot.
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CONFESSIONS--FILMS YOU ARE ASHAMED TO SAY YOU HAVE NOT SEEN (YET) over 3 years ago
The Conformist & Intolerance
Doubly so since they’re both sitting on my nightstand.
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Should it be seen? over 3 years ago
I’ve not seen Salo but I have read quite a bit about it including Gary Indiana’s BFI critique, Ben Simington’s excellent essay and countless forum and review posts. From what I can gather it is completely repulsive and a unique and valuable masterpiece.
It is however one of the few artistically lauded films that I have adamantly refused to watch.
A faction of the crowd that recommends the film seem to enjoy the extreme nature of its content, reveling in it’s extraordinary perversity pausing only to make sure that there is a sign on the door reading “Don’t worry. I’m appreciating it for it’s artistic merit.”
Another group seems to fear the jibes of their liberated contemporaries quoting it to be disgusting and vile but nonetheless important. They don’t really seem to be able to articulate it’s importance other than it being a curio that delineates how extreme a work can be and still be called art.
I’m not really interested in the “What is art and who determines that?” question in this case.
I’m simply interested in hearing, from those who have seen it, why it is important for me as a rabid film enthusiast to subject himself to the images that Passolini has to offer here? Simply because it’s there? Because it was created by a great auteur?
Should I watch Salo?
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Best title over 3 years ago
The Beat My Heart Skipped
Punch Drunk Love
Withnail and I
The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly
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Should it be seen? over 3 years ago
Justin Traviss – What I want from the film is what I want from any experience. That it be edifying in some fashion, whether it be intellectually, physically, spiritually, sensually, etc. Films, as with other forms of art, have an experiential distinction in that I can choose whether to experience it or not. With Salo I have not come across a reason to experience it other than being a completist (seeing all of Passolini’s films, seeing all the Criterion films, or seeing “hype” films like you mentioned) and that isn’t a strong enough reason to me anymore. I similarly don’t like the idea of the film’s that i watch being trophies. I want “War and Peace” to actually be a good story or at least be extraordinary in terms of craft, not just an obnoxiously long book. That being said, that denial gives the film a particular mystique that is as tantalizing as the grass the sign tells you to stay off of.
Mr. Sweetums (genius name) – Nothing should not be seen? Dangerous maxim. Would you agree then, that it aught to be seen simply because it exists? Is this true only because it is a fabrication and not a documentation or does this hold true for anything that can be taken in visually? Honestly curious what you think, not trying to bait you.
Go to Comment
Has there ever been a bad Mike Leigh film? over 3 years ago
I certainly haven’t seen all of his stuff but everything I’ve seen is consistently better than pretty much anything out there. Is there a Leonard Part 6 in his oeuvre?
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favorite funniest movie over 3 years ago
Few films still make me laugh out loud especially if I’m by myself. But there are a few:
The Big Lebowski
The Great Muppet Caper
Sherlock Jr.
The Great Muppet Caper
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Films you love but most people hate. over 3 years ago
Legend. Sorry (slinking away in shame).
Actually love is pretty strong and its more that I love what it was supposed to be and not what it was. The director’s cut was an extraordinary improvement over the theatrical cut and the Goldsmith score transformed the film for me.
And Tim Curry’s Darkness is still the best cinematic devil ever.
Go to Comment
Solaris over 3 years ago
I did read the novel and both versions, understandably, omit the final scene. Kelvin makes it to the planet and has an interaction with its surface. It is in my estimation one of the few articulations of what it would be like to encounter and intelligence completely separate from human understanding.
I do think the Tarkovsky version is better (obnoxiously slow but better) but Soderbergh’s was such a ballsy move. I really respect him for his adaptation even though I was hoping for something different. Both took the source material and made it their own. We still haven’t seen Stanislaw Lem’s Solaris on the screen.
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Film quotes you love over 3 years ago
Low brow but:
Dumb and Dumber
Lloyd: I thought the Rock Mountains would be rockier than this.
Harry: I was thinkin’ the same thing.
Lloyd: John Denver’s full of shit man.
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What is your most memorable film going experience? (Only one per post please!) over 3 years ago
Like deciding on a favorite movie this is difficult for the true cinephile but I’d love to hear what was the most memorable for you.
One of my own favorite experiences was seeing “Rear Window” in the theater for the first time. It wasn’t the picture or the sound or the size that knocked me out. It was the end of the film when Jimmy Stewart uses flash bulbs to blind Thorwald.
I had seen the film countless times on television and small screens and the scene was always interesting but not particularly terrifying. However seeing in the completely dark theater after my eyes had adjusted to the darkness, when that first flash bulb goes I was blinded in the same way that Thorwald was. This might seem like a no-brainer but I was floored.
Hitchcock had created an effect that actually affected me physically. I couldn’t believe the level of craftsmanship and understanding that created such a small but dynamic effect. I’ve never felt that in the cinema before or since.
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What is your most memorable film going experience? (Only one per post please!) over 3 years ago
What made it memorable simon?
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Still shown in 3D? over 3 years ago
Has anyone seen this recently in an actual theater in 3D? Of course I’ve seen the Criterion DVD but I would love to see this ridiculous film on the big screen so the spear can poke right into my eye.
Any art houses in LA perhaps that have a 3D print and the proper glasses?
Go to Comment
"Flesh" still shown in 3D? over 3 years ago
Has anyone seen Flesh For Frankenstein recently in an actual theater in 3D. Of course I’ve seen the Criterion DVD but I would love to see this ridiculous film on the big screen so the spear can poke right into my eye.
Any art houses in LA perhaps that have a 3D print and the proper glasses?
Go to Comment
I Hate David O. F***ing Selznick! over 3 years ago
I don’t really have alot to back this up apart from every last bit of information I have ever heard about the man makes me angry. He should have been drawn and quartered simply for messing with Hitchcock on “Rebecca”. Also, the “O” doesn’t stand for anything. What an ass! Sure, he’s dead and all but my hate for him lives on!
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YOUR FAVOURITE "ROAD MOVIE" ? over 3 years ago
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
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Who do you think the most overrated director is? over 3 years ago
Brian DePalma.
Professional director but not an original bone in his body. Not worth revering or studying.
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breathless or contempt over 3 years ago
Breathless is a far more important film but far less interesting than Contempt.
Loved Contempt the first time out and it continues to be great.
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You know it's gonna be bad, but you watch it anyway... over 3 years ago
I watch bad television on purpose sometimes just to keep myself in check. First off, I need to allow myself a opportunity to not take everything so seriously and just laugh and/or be mindlessly entertained. Two, even in shit television I can find something that either was a good idea pulled off badly (perhaps it would have worked better in another show). Three, even bad TV helps me learn. I think to myself “why” did this show not work? What would I have done different? What demographic does this appeal to? How would I make a better show that appeals to the same demographic? These aren’t always questions I have answers to, but they are things to ponder. I prefer the sort of films we all seem to love here, but me deciding to just waste some time watching SURVIVOR 3 doesn’t affect my feelings for Bergman or Kurosawa. Hell, I can think of a lot worse things out there that are the downfall of modern society as I see it.
Now to the actual topic of the forum:
End of the Spear – I was hoping it would be a little closer to The Mission. Horrifyingly bad.
Transformers – Was hoping it would be bad like the cartoon movie. Fell asleep 4 times.
The Day the Earth Stood Still – The new one. Heard it was garbage. Wanted to believe otherwise. It’s pretty god awful.
I’m sure there are others but I’ve put them out of my mind.
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MOMENT OF TRUTH: HAVE YOU EVER GONE TO THE MOVIES AND FALLEN ASLEEP DURING THE FILM? over 3 years ago
Transfomers, proving that there is a god of cinema.
To my eternal shame – Return of the Jedi: Special Edition (In my defense I had seen it a couple days before in the theater and the night before this showing I had done an all-nighter. I know, it’s not a good excuse)
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What is your most memorable film going experience? (Only one per post please!) over 3 years ago
Driving 4 hours to a theater north of Chicago to see “Blade Runner” for the first time on the big screen. Then driving 4 hours back to find out the next morning that it was playing in town. The whole trip (dinner, tickets, gas) cost $100. Worth every last cent.
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Slumdog Millionaire Overrated Film of the Year about 3 years ago
Overrated, yeah but also over-criticized. Harmless if somewhat cloying. It didn’t talk down to its audience but didn’t challenge it either. Wouldn’t make it into my top 10 for the year but I was far more entertained than I was by Benjamin Button. Happy that Danny Boyle was recognized but, like so many Academy Award winners, wish it had been for a different film or for his body of work. Meh. Life goes on.
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Best biographical movies about 3 years ago
Top 10 in no particular order:
Mishima.
Kinsey.
Amadeus.
Chaplin.
Auto Focus.
Donnie Brasco.
Lawrence of Arabia.
The Passion of Joan of Arc.
Heavenly Creatures.
Quiz Show.
Go to Comment
Kinda disappointed with breathless about 3 years ago
Yeah I was definitely disappointed with Breathless the first time I watched it as are almost all of my film history students. I bought it sight unseen after having been completely seduced by “The 400 Blows” and pretty much the rest of Truffaut’s oeuvre, and found the film to be a tremendous bore.
I have since grown to enjoy it more than I did the first time but it really has more to do with getting my head in the time when it was made. I think it will always be extraordinarily important historically but I don’t find it to be timeless in the least. “The Jazz Singer” is an important historical film as well but one that I find to be an extremely unpleasant viewing experience.
Loved Contempt though.
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So what's the film that your friends loved and you thought was rubbish. about 3 years ago
Donnie Darko. I know I’m wrong but I was totally underwhelmed.
Transformers. Few people told me they loved it but most said they were entertained. I fell asleep multiple times.
Ghostbusters. Yeah I know. To my great shame. I keep wanting to laugh more when I watch it.
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Greatest Single Cut about 3 years ago
I’d love to hear nominations for the greatest single cut in cinema history. Obviously there are a myriad magnificent examples and I’m sure you all have hundreds but what single cut really knocks you out every single time?
The one that springs to mind for me is from “Lawrence of Arabia”. Lawrence extinguishing the flame of the match – cut to the desert.
Just got the chance to see it in 70mm at the Egyptian in Hollywood. Breathtaking!
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Greatest Single Cut about 3 years ago
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