“The Thin Red Line,” “Paths Of Glory,” “Ivan’s Childhood.” “A Bridge Too Far” is bloated and muddled, but I first saw it when I was a kid, it made a huge impression on me (I still remember how stricken I was by the last shot, maybe the first time I ever appreciated a movie as something more than mere entertainment) and I’ll still watch it whenever it’s on, pan and scan, blurry print, doesn’t matter!
“Saving Private Ryan does nothing but show Spielberg’s simplistic view on WW2, he has no insight and offers cliches to tell a story that didn’t need telling. It’s almost as bad as Pearl Harbor.”
I respectfully disagree, Belmondo. I think you just don’t like Spielberg’s take on personal heroism and sacrifice (and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there weren’t some simple anti-Americanism involved.) Which is fine, if true, but not a reflection on the effectiveness of the movie.
I dunno, I like some Verhoeven (and Robocop’s okay) but I also think he’s consistently overrated. The most egregious example is Starship Troopers, wherein the satire is so obvious and the the targets so easy I always have to wonder if the movie’s admirers are truly facile or, for some reason, just really, really WANT it to be great.
That said, I do think Starship Troopers is a well-made popcorn flick.
Wait a second, why am I talking about Starship Troopers?
“Well, I’ve come across plenty of people who don’t recognise that there’s any satire there at all, or who think the satire is exclusively based around totalitarian imagery (Leni Riefenstahl and the like) – as opposed to relentless mockery of 1950s-style American values dominant at the time the novel was written, which to me is the film’s main satirical purpose.”
“The over-the-top gore that is a Verhoeven staple and the cheesy images once again perfectly subverts the Hollywood action film, not trying to overcome cliches, but instead it dives right into them in a way completely mocking.”
I think these lead me to one of my main problem’s with Verhoeven’s approach. What’s the point of this type of satire, anyway? Where’s the subversion? The supposed knuckleheads who take the film at face value obviously won’t have their minds changed, and those of us who “get the joke” already get the joke. It seems like a very expensive way to enable a rarefied and cynical minority to pat themselves on the back. (And before anyone gets mad at me, I include myself in the target demographic.)
“Well, I’ve come across plenty of people who don’t recognise that there’s any satire there at all, or who think the satire is exclusively based around totalitarian imagery (Leni Riefenstahl and the like) – as opposed to relentless mockery of 1950s-style American values dominant at the time the novel was written, which to me is the film’s main satirical purpose.”
“The over-the-top gore that is a Verhoeven staple and the cheesy images once again perfectly subverts the Hollywood action film, not trying to overcome cliches, but instead it dives right into them in a way completely mocking.”
I think these lead me to one of my main problems with Verhoeven’s approach. What’s the point of this type of satire, anyway? Where’s the subversion? The supposed knuckleheads who take the film at face value obviously won’t have their minds changed, and those of us who “get the joke” already get the joke. It seems like a very expensive way to enable a rarefied and cynical minority to pat themselves on the back. (And before anyone gets too mad at me, I include myself in the target demographic.)
Whoa. What a lot of snobbishness and condescension in one post!
As I’ve made clear, I don’t think that much of Verhoeven, but you can hardly argue that discussion of his films is somehow out of place here. The first glowing review I read of Starship Troopers was in Artforum, for cryin’ out loud, not Premiere.
I think what you’re missing is that there are many thoughtful people (critics, teachers, passionate amateurs,) who take Verhoeven’s work (including Robocop) seriously. It’s not like someone coming on and going “Transformers pwns!!!”
I don’t love either one of them, but you’re just missing the point that Verhoeven, unlike Bay, is taken very seriously by many film scholars. It’s kind of like saying no serious student of film would ever want to discuss the movies of Martin Scorcese, you know, with all the guns and boxing and stuff.
I don’t love either one of them, but you’re just missing the point that Verhoeven, unlike Bay, is taken very seriously by many film scholars. It’s kind of like saying no serious student of film would ever want to discuss the movies of Martin Scorcese, you know, with all the guns and boxing and stuff.
You put it better than I did, Bobby; it was pretentious of me to imply that it was somehow infra dig to talk about Michael Bay. Although I have heard he makes some pretty crappy flicks! (The only one I’ve seen is Transformers, and I was drunk as a lord, so I can’t actually make any comment on it.)
You put it better than I did, Bobby; it was pretentious of me to imply that it was somehow infra dig to talk about Michael Bay. Although I have heard he makes some pretty crappy flicks! (The only one I’ve seen is Transformers, and I was drunk as a lord, so I can’t actually make any comment on it.)
I’ve always loved “The Dead,” by John Huston. I can only assume his knowledge of his impending death contributed to the masterfully sensitive tone of the film.
I’ve always loved “The Dead,” by John Huston. I can only assume his knowledge of his impending death contributed to the masterfully sensitive tone of the film.
Thanks for the tip, Mark. I’ve actually got “The Sacrifice” in my collection; for some reason I’ve just never sat down with it. I think it might be because “Andrei Rublev” and “Solaris” (of all his films) affected me so deeply, I’m afraid I’ll be disappointed. Silly, I know.
As for “EWS,” I’ll admit Cruise turned me off at first. (Kidman, well, what can I say – I love her. I don’t care what the people say.) But I also heard a lot of “Meh” when it came out. That does seem to be changing and, well, it’s Kubrick (and Nicole in her underwear – sorry! I’m sorry!): how bad can it be?
I think it’s a mistake to “interpret” Lynch’s movies: it robs them of their power. Still, I’ve spent many hours trolling message boards where people do just that.
Haven’t seen this one yet.I love Lynch and fear I will be disappointed.
I really wanted to walk out of “The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, And Her Lover,” because I thought it was hamfisted claptrap, and it was really upsetting my girlfriend, who was sitting beside me. Strangely, she wouldn’t leave. I swore I’d never watch another Greenaway (I was 19 or 20) and I haven’t. Which is kind of too bad, because I think I’d like some of them. Although I still believe “TCTTHWAHL” is hamfisted claptrap.
Same girlfriend was very upset by “Wild At Heart,” but didn’t want to leave that one, either. I liked “Wild At Heart,” though.
Same girlfriend was in tears after the famous scene in “Dangerous Liasons” when Uma Thurman’s breasts are exposed. Afterwards I asked her why and she said “She seemed so scared.” Made me feel like a thug, and I’ve never forgotten it.
Best War Movie(s) over 3 years ago
“The Thin Red Line,” “Paths Of Glory,” “Ivan’s Childhood.” “A Bridge Too Far” is bloated and muddled, but I first saw it when I was a kid, it made a huge impression on me (I still remember how stricken I was by the last shot, maybe the first time I ever appreciated a movie as something more than mere entertainment) and I’ll still watch it whenever it’s on, pan and scan, blurry print, doesn’t matter!
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Best War Movie(s) over 3 years ago
“Saving Private Ryan does nothing but show Spielberg’s simplistic view on WW2, he has no insight and offers cliches to tell a story that didn’t need telling. It’s almost as bad as Pearl Harbor.”
I respectfully disagree, Belmondo. I think you just don’t like Spielberg’s take on personal heroism and sacrifice (and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there weren’t some simple anti-Americanism involved.) Which is fine, if true, but not a reflection on the effectiveness of the movie.
All your other points are fine.
;)
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
I dunno, I like some Verhoeven (and Robocop’s okay) but I also think he’s consistently overrated. The most egregious example is Starship Troopers, wherein the satire is so obvious and the the targets so easy I always have to wonder if the movie’s admirers are truly facile or, for some reason, just really, really WANT it to be great.
That said, I do think Starship Troopers is a well-made popcorn flick.
Wait a second, why am I talking about Starship Troopers?
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
“Well, I’ve come across plenty of people who don’t recognise that there’s any satire there at all, or who think the satire is exclusively based around totalitarian imagery (Leni Riefenstahl and the like) – as opposed to relentless mockery of 1950s-style American values dominant at the time the novel was written, which to me is the film’s main satirical purpose.”
“The over-the-top gore that is a Verhoeven staple and the cheesy images once again perfectly subverts the Hollywood action film, not trying to overcome cliches, but instead it dives right into them in a way completely mocking.”
I think these lead me to one of my main problem’s with Verhoeven’s approach. What’s the point of this type of satire, anyway? Where’s the subversion? The supposed knuckleheads who take the film at face value obviously won’t have their minds changed, and those of us who “get the joke” already get the joke. It seems like a very expensive way to enable a rarefied and cynical minority to pat themselves on the back. (And before anyone gets mad at me, I include myself in the target demographic.)
Go to Comment
Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
“Well, I’ve come across plenty of people who don’t recognise that there’s any satire there at all, or who think the satire is exclusively based around totalitarian imagery (Leni Riefenstahl and the like) – as opposed to relentless mockery of 1950s-style American values dominant at the time the novel was written, which to me is the film’s main satirical purpose.”
“The over-the-top gore that is a Verhoeven staple and the cheesy images once again perfectly subverts the Hollywood action film, not trying to overcome cliches, but instead it dives right into them in a way completely mocking.”
I think these lead me to one of my main problems with Verhoeven’s approach. What’s the point of this type of satire, anyway? Where’s the subversion? The supposed knuckleheads who take the film at face value obviously won’t have their minds changed, and those of us who “get the joke” already get the joke. It seems like a very expensive way to enable a rarefied and cynical minority to pat themselves on the back. (And before anyone gets too mad at me, I include myself in the target demographic.)
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
“What a grouch!”
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movies that shake you to the core over 3 years ago
Andrei Rublev.
The Thin Red Line.
Breaking The Waves (really just the final shot.)
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
Whoa. What a lot of snobbishness and condescension in one post!
As I’ve made clear, I don’t think that much of Verhoeven, but you can hardly argue that discussion of his films is somehow out of place here. The first glowing review I read of Starship Troopers was in Artforum, for cryin’ out loud, not Premiere.
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
I think what you’re missing is that there are many thoughtful people (critics, teachers, passionate amateurs,) who take Verhoeven’s work (including Robocop) seriously. It’s not like someone coming on and going “Transformers pwns!!!”
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
How’d that guy get in here?!
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
I don’t love either one of them, but you’re just missing the point that Verhoeven, unlike Bay, is taken very seriously by many film scholars. It’s kind of like saying no serious student of film would ever want to discuss the movies of Martin Scorcese, you know, with all the guns and boxing and stuff.
Go to Comment
Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
I don’t love either one of them, but you’re just missing the point that Verhoeven, unlike Bay, is taken very seriously by many film scholars. It’s kind of like saying no serious student of film would ever want to discuss the movies of Martin Scorcese, you know, with all the guns and boxing and stuff.
Go to Comment
Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
You put it better than I did, Bobby; it was pretentious of me to imply that it was somehow infra dig to talk about Michael Bay. Although I have heard he makes some pretty crappy flicks! (The only one I’ve seen is Transformers, and I was drunk as a lord, so I can’t actually make any comment on it.)
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
You put it better than I did, Bobby; it was pretentious of me to imply that it was somehow infra dig to talk about Michael Bay. Although I have heard he makes some pretty crappy flicks! (The only one I’ve seen is Transformers, and I was drunk as a lord, so I can’t actually make any comment on it.)
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Why all the hate? over 3 years ago
I was really eager for people to read that comment.
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Final Films by Master Filmmakers over 3 years ago
I’ve always loved “The Dead,” by John Huston. I can only assume his knowledge of his impending death contributed to the masterfully sensitive tone of the film.
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Final Films by Master Filmmakers over 3 years ago
I’ve always loved “The Dead,” by John Huston. I can only assume his knowledge of his impending death contributed to the masterfully sensitive tone of the film.
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Final Films by Master Filmmakers over 3 years ago
Damn it.
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Final Films by Master Filmmakers over 3 years ago
It’s strange, but even though I love Kubrick and Tarkovsky, I haven’t seen either of those movies yet.
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Final Films by Master Filmmakers over 3 years ago
Thanks for the tip, Mark. I’ve actually got “The Sacrifice” in my collection; for some reason I’ve just never sat down with it. I think it might be because “Andrei Rublev” and “Solaris” (of all his films) affected me so deeply, I’m afraid I’ll be disappointed. Silly, I know.
As for “EWS,” I’ll admit Cruise turned me off at first. (Kidman, well, what can I say – I love her. I don’t care what the people say.) But I also heard a lot of “Meh” when it came out. That does seem to be changing and, well, it’s Kubrick (and Nicole in her underwear – sorry! I’m sorry!): how bad can it be?
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The Best Canadian Films of all time? over 3 years ago
Adam: Parsley Days? PARSLEY DAYS!!??!?
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Your interpretation of this film over 3 years ago
I think it’s a mistake to “interpret” Lynch’s movies: it robs them of their power. Still, I’ve spent many hours trolling message boards where people do just that.
Haven’t seen this one yet.I love Lynch and fear I will be disappointed.
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movies that shake you to the core over 3 years ago
I just remembered: the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre really disturbed me in a deep but not unpleasurable way.
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Greatest Director/Actor Collaborations over 3 years ago
Kurosawa – Mifune
Mann – Stewart
Hitchcock – Stewart
Scorcese – DeNiro
No surprises, but I can’t sleep. And I demand that everyone know my middlebrow opinions!
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Which Movies Have You Walked Out On? over 3 years ago
I really wanted to walk out of “The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, And Her Lover,” because I thought it was hamfisted claptrap, and it was really upsetting my girlfriend, who was sitting beside me. Strangely, she wouldn’t leave. I swore I’d never watch another Greenaway (I was 19 or 20) and I haven’t. Which is kind of too bad, because I think I’d like some of them. Although I still believe “TCTTHWAHL” is hamfisted claptrap.
Same girlfriend was very upset by “Wild At Heart,” but didn’t want to leave that one, either. I liked “Wild At Heart,” though.
Same girlfriend was in tears after the famous scene in “Dangerous Liasons” when Uma Thurman’s breasts are exposed. Afterwards I asked her why and she said “She seemed so scared.” Made me feel like a thug, and I’ve never forgotten it.
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