Latecomer, I know! Suddenly dawned on me that there must be a thread on here about Watchmen. I’ve been a fan of the graphic novel (GN) for nearly 20 yrs & have read it mult times, discussed it quite a bit w/friends & acquaintances.
Ultimately, I thought the movie looked good & had some very well done visual FX & art direction. This was something I suspected when I 1st heard Snyder was directing the movie: it’ll LOOK good but I’m not sure he has the talent to bring out emotion in his actors. Take a look at 300, smarmy feelings but no real substance to them, despite the film looking good.
So, here’s my ultimate prob w/the film: he failed utterly to capture the emotional themes of the book. Long & short, he took a masterful story, one that had characters that we actually cared about, cared about their motives, their relationships with each other & he stripped it down to something that would appeal more to the short-attention span crowd, rather than something that would appeal to fans of the GN. For example; the penultimate moment of the book, when Laurie finds out on Mars who her real father is, has lost all of it’s impact because only half the chapter was filmed. Dr M’s long pontification on the fate of the Earth and the wonders of Mars and Laurie’s counter arguments are stripped down so that the only thing we’re left with is him touching Laurie’s head & feeding her the truth. DID NOT HAPPEN that way in the book, Laurie’s own recollections, what she’d been blocking in her own mind for decades, THEY were what finally gave her the revelation. Snyder takes the easy path by having Dr M do something akin to a Vulcan mindmeld.
Another example is how Rorschach dispatches the child murderer; Snyder reduces it to a scene from a slasher film. In the book, the bastard was made to suffer agonizingly when R sets his home on fire, a longer, slower death. I don’t know what Snyder was thinking, other than “this effect of a split head is gonna look AWESOME on screen!”
In the end, this was a pretty poor rendering, esp from a guy who told us in several interviews that he was going to make a film that would please fans & non-fans alike.
Sued by the creators of Mad Max? Eh, I doubt it highly! Snyder (if he’d done things right) was using Moore’s book NOT Mad Max. The producers of Max might have a case against Moore but if they really did, they’d have tried it by now.
Moore stealing an idea from Mad Max is a helluva lot less (lack of a better word…) criminal than changing a huge part of the scene’s context from the orig source. I know I thought of the Max scene immediately when read the scene in the book BUT it made me laugh that Moore had used such an obscure ref at the time. Don’t forget, this book came out about 6 yrs aft Max became a cult item in the US so Moore was prob counting on Max’s obscurity for the scene.
Raiders – (Sappy sentimental reason…) Because it’s the first film I saw that made me say WOWWEE WOW when I was a kid. It had humor, adventure, violence, Nazis, a smartass hero. Aft that I started watching more movies than television.
Schindler’s List – Because it grabbed me by the shoulders & shook me violently. A lot of people & critics came down on the scene where Schindler breaks down but I think it’s a masterful moment of acting by Neeson.
Jaws – scared the hell outta me 1st time I saw it end-to-end when I was a teenager. Some of the best acting in Spielberg’s repertoire – Quint’s recounting of the Indianapolis incident might be the finest moment of his career.
And I’m also w/the small crowd that actually LIKES War of the Worlds. I’m convinced the dislike of it was all about Cruise’s fat mouth that summer & the couch jumping incident – critics went in w/a preconceived notion of Scientology & the film suffered. It’s actually a pretty intense & tightly constructed thriller. Flaws, yes, but they’re easily forgotten.
I’ve actually got a list in my IMDB My Movies acct of films that give me the chills. Freaks is on that list, I couldn’t watch it more than once, just too creepy.
As far as herky-jerky camerawork, Cloverfield. I had to shift my eyes away from the screen for most of the movie. BUT, I thought the technique came off as pretentious anyway.
One film that left me feeling dirty was The Devil’s Rejects – there’s just something highly disturbing about the way Rob Zombie staged everything…
DREW, happy to hear you did a lecture on the evils of the NC rating. The rating syst as we know it is pretty much useless, kids are always finding ways around a single letter to get into a theatre.
Interestingly enough, when I saw Inglourious Basterds a few weekends ago, there was a guy who brought his kid, no older than 10, to see it & this film DEFINITELY ain’t for kids! They’d be bored at the least, & its too viscerally violent for them.
And there’s just not telling what people will find offensive. For example, the 1st & only time I saw Watchmen, there were a bunch of kids sitting behind me, my guess is that they weren’t any older than 19. And the girls in the crowd kept commenting on Dr Manhattan’s nudity as if it was some sort of affront to their wussy values. Hadn’t they EVER had an art class in school that showed them classical Greek & Roman sculpture? Also, if they’d ever read the book, as I KNOW none of them had, they’d understand exactly WHY Dr M chose to go nude as part of his growing detachment to humanity. I guess that’s too much to ask them to understand b/c all I heard was “OMG, he’s naked again? Why doesn’t he put his clothes on?” Not to mention that it was the war cry of trolls on the IMDB boards for months!
I also remember reading a new story on a survey conducted for pre-teens where they were asked if censorship is permissible. I think over 60% of the kids ans’d that it was ok! APPALLING, what the hell are their parents teaching them? What are they learning in school? Seems like teachers are fighting a losing battle against fanatical religious moralists (so called).
I’ve actually made a point of watching as many Unrated & NC films as I can that I think will have substantial meaning to me. I’ve got the option to tho, no wife, no kids. And it’s the biggest reason that I chose to stop going to Blockbastard; they practice a dual-standard of marketing in their stores: they’ll claim they’re family oriented & not carry a film like The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover b/c it’s morally objectionable (tho they sugar-coat their policy so it doesn’t sound restrictive) BUT they won’t hesitate to carry an ultra violent video game.
Last movie I saw in a theatre: A Serious Man – 7/10
Not bad but I prefer the Coens other more recent work, this was a bit too stripped down for me, altho the bar mitzvah scene is one of the funniest moments I’ve seen this year!
Last flick I watched on disc: Johnny Got His Gun – 8/10
The Perfect Storm: Billy: “This is where we separate the men from the boys.” Yeah, like we really needed to hear that line AGAIN, and it’s not just limited to film either!
Also, I’ve never liked “There’s more to _____ than meets the eye”, Jackson could have left that line out of Fellowship, even tho its a direct quote from the book. Hearing it later in Transformers, despite it being the toys’ catchphrase, made me wince.
Armageddon is dripping with inane dialog: the entire animal cracker love scene & “Oh man, what’re you doin’ with a gun in space?” (well, DUH!! It’s a military operation…) & the absolute WORST moment in the film “Ok men, this is what we trained for now just SUCK IT UP!!” when they slingshot around the moon.
Braveheart (the most overpraised film of the 90s): “Some men are bigger n’ others!” Yup, we really needed another dick joke, didn’t we?
“until I read Danny Peary: he said that the scene where Kay and Michael are going at it hammer and tongs, with Kay finally telling Michael she had an abortion rather than pollute the world with another Corleone son, is played – and comes across to the viewer – like an acting class (literally); it’s like the two best actors in Acting 101 are asked to really give it their all in this exercise. As usual, Peary is right. I can never look at that scene again without thinking it somehow amateurish and “forced”.”
I have that book too, got it when it 1st was published & you’re right, Peary’s opinion holds up. He also called Pt II “trite” & I think he’s right about that as well: Party, family business, massacre. There is quite a lot added in, expanding the Corleone family’s power in American biz, Hyman Roth is a great character, as is Frankie Pentangelli, to make the story a bit more unique but …
I think that the biggest reason it’s so highly praised is because of the telling of Vito’s backstory, which was excellently done. But when you discount those scenes, it’s really just a fancier retread of the 1st film, which was superior.
BTW, has anyone ever read the novel? GREAT GREAT GREAT story, made a great movie didn’t it? BUT it’s also one of the worst examples of English language writing ever published! Puzo’s prose is painful!!
I tried watching El Topo but just couldn’t understand any of it. Just came off as a disjointed & disconnected series of images w/no purpose, even a surreal one.
Coppola’s version of Dracula!!!! Reeves, Ryder & even Hopkins were all deplorably bad. Great visuals, some scary moments but the acting is sooooooo damn bad I can’t watch the movie!!
Well, as long as we’re on the topic if Flop Gun, how ’bout: “I feel the need, the need for speed!” (I could never watch that film w/out turning it off in disgust aft about 10 mins, surprised I lasted THAT long!!)
I actually thought the opening line of 28 Days Later above was a good one, adds to the ominous tone of the film…
Titanic’s also loaded w/inane, cliched dialog like: “Rose, this is where we first met!!” or "sooner or later that fire that I love about you, Rose… that fire’s gonna burn out… " After seeing Avatar recently, admittedly a VERY entertaining & visually stunning film, I wish that Cameron would get off his high horse & hire a writer like Kasdan, Koepp, or Zaillian to punch up his scripts or write better dialog.
The other line I wanted to vomit over after Op Prime said “ebay” was when he said “My bad…” I HATE HATE HATE that euphemism to begin with but this time they really went overboard in their panderance. GLUH!!!
Watchmen almost 3 years ago
Latecomer, I know! Suddenly dawned on me that there must be a thread on here about Watchmen. I’ve been a fan of the graphic novel (GN) for nearly 20 yrs & have read it mult times, discussed it quite a bit w/friends & acquaintances.
Ultimately, I thought the movie looked good & had some very well done visual FX & art direction. This was something I suspected when I 1st heard Snyder was directing the movie: it’ll LOOK good but I’m not sure he has the talent to bring out emotion in his actors. Take a look at 300, smarmy feelings but no real substance to them, despite the film looking good.
So, here’s my ultimate prob w/the film: he failed utterly to capture the emotional themes of the book. Long & short, he took a masterful story, one that had characters that we actually cared about, cared about their motives, their relationships with each other & he stripped it down to something that would appeal more to the short-attention span crowd, rather than something that would appeal to fans of the GN. For example; the penultimate moment of the book, when Laurie finds out on Mars who her real father is, has lost all of it’s impact because only half the chapter was filmed. Dr M’s long pontification on the fate of the Earth and the wonders of Mars and Laurie’s counter arguments are stripped down so that the only thing we’re left with is him touching Laurie’s head & feeding her the truth. DID NOT HAPPEN that way in the book, Laurie’s own recollections, what she’d been blocking in her own mind for decades, THEY were what finally gave her the revelation. Snyder takes the easy path by having Dr M do something akin to a Vulcan mindmeld.
Another example is how Rorschach dispatches the child murderer; Snyder reduces it to a scene from a slasher film. In the book, the bastard was made to suffer agonizingly when R sets his home on fire, a longer, slower death. I don’t know what Snyder was thinking, other than “this effect of a split head is gonna look AWESOME on screen!”
In the end, this was a pretty poor rendering, esp from a guy who told us in several interviews that he was going to make a film that would please fans & non-fans alike.
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Watchmen almost 3 years ago
Sued by the creators of Mad Max? Eh, I doubt it highly! Snyder (if he’d done things right) was using Moore’s book NOT Mad Max. The producers of Max might have a case against Moore but if they really did, they’d have tried it by now.
Moore stealing an idea from Mad Max is a helluva lot less (lack of a better word…) criminal than changing a huge part of the scene’s context from the orig source. I know I thought of the Max scene immediately when read the scene in the book BUT it made me laugh that Moore had used such an obscure ref at the time. Don’t forget, this book came out about 6 yrs aft Max became a cult item in the US so Moore was prob counting on Max’s obscurity for the scene.
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your fav. Spielberg film and why ? almost 3 years ago
And I’m also w/the small crowd that actually LIKES War of the Worlds. I’m convinced the dislike of it was all about Cruise’s fat mouth that summer & the couch jumping incident – critics went in w/a preconceived notion of Scientology & the film suffered. It’s actually a pretty intense & tightly constructed thriller. Flaws, yes, but they’re easily forgotten.
Go to Comment
Films that made you physically ill after watching almost 3 years ago
I’ve actually got a list in my IMDB My Movies acct of films that give me the chills. Freaks is on that list, I couldn’t watch it more than once, just too creepy.
As far as herky-jerky camerawork, Cloverfield. I had to shift my eyes away from the screen for most of the movie. BUT, I thought the technique came off as pretentious anyway.
One film that left me feeling dirty was The Devil’s Rejects – there’s just something highly disturbing about the way Rob Zombie staged everything…
Go to Comment
Censorship over 2 years ago
DREW, happy to hear you did a lecture on the evils of the NC rating. The rating syst as we know it is pretty much useless, kids are always finding ways around a single letter to get into a theatre.
Interestingly enough, when I saw Inglourious Basterds a few weekends ago, there was a guy who brought his kid, no older than 10, to see it & this film DEFINITELY ain’t for kids! They’d be bored at the least, & its too viscerally violent for them.
And there’s just not telling what people will find offensive. For example, the 1st & only time I saw Watchmen, there were a bunch of kids sitting behind me, my guess is that they weren’t any older than 19. And the girls in the crowd kept commenting on Dr Manhattan’s nudity as if it was some sort of affront to their wussy values. Hadn’t they EVER had an art class in school that showed them classical Greek & Roman sculpture? Also, if they’d ever read the book, as I KNOW none of them had, they’d understand exactly WHY Dr M chose to go nude as part of his growing detachment to humanity. I guess that’s too much to ask them to understand b/c all I heard was “OMG, he’s naked again? Why doesn’t he put his clothes on?” Not to mention that it was the war cry of trolls on the IMDB boards for months!
I also remember reading a new story on a survey conducted for pre-teens where they were asked if censorship is permissible. I think over 60% of the kids ans’d that it was ok! APPALLING, what the hell are their parents teaching them? What are they learning in school? Seems like teachers are fighting a losing battle against fanatical religious moralists (so called).
I’ve actually made a point of watching as many Unrated & NC films as I can that I think will have substantial meaning to me. I’ve got the option to tho, no wife, no kids. And it’s the biggest reason that I chose to stop going to Blockbastard; they practice a dual-standard of marketing in their stores: they’ll claim they’re family oriented & not carry a film like The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover b/c it’s morally objectionable (tho they sugar-coat their policy so it doesn’t sound restrictive) BUT they won’t hesitate to carry an ultra violent video game.
Go to Comment
Che coming to Criterion? over 2 years ago
Drew, if your parents said no, then go yourself. Unless you’re underage.
Fredo, have you seen the entire film? One of the best films I saw from last yr.
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How many movies do you watch in a week/month? over 2 years ago
I’m on the 3/out at a time plan on Nflix so I can get as many as 12 discs a month. Of those, 8-9 are movies.
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Last movie you saw and rate it over 2 years ago
Last movie I saw in a theatre: A Serious Man – 7/10
Not bad but I prefer the Coens other more recent work, this was a bit too stripped down for me, altho the bar mitzvah scene is one of the funniest moments I’ve seen this year!
Last flick I watched on disc: Johnny Got His Gun – 8/10
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stupidest things ever said in a movie over 2 years ago
The Perfect Storm: Billy: “This is where we separate the men from the boys.” Yeah, like we really needed to hear that line AGAIN, and it’s not just limited to film either!
Also, I’ve never liked “There’s more to _____ than meets the eye”, Jackson could have left that line out of Fellowship, even tho its a direct quote from the book. Hearing it later in Transformers, despite it being the toys’ catchphrase, made me wince.
Armageddon is dripping with inane dialog: the entire animal cracker love scene & “Oh man, what’re you doin’ with a gun in space?” (well, DUH!! It’s a military operation…) & the absolute WORST moment in the film “Ok men, this is what we trained for now just SUCK IT UP!!” when they slingshot around the moon.
Braveheart (the most overpraised film of the 90s): “Some men are bigger n’ others!” Yup, we really needed another dick joke, didn’t we?
Go to Comment
Part II: Is It Over-rated? over 2 years ago
“until I read Danny Peary: he said that the scene where Kay and Michael are going at it hammer and tongs, with Kay finally telling Michael she had an abortion rather than pollute the world with another Corleone son, is played – and comes across to the viewer – like an acting class (literally); it’s like the two best actors in Acting 101 are asked to really give it their all in this exercise. As usual, Peary is right. I can never look at that scene again without thinking it somehow amateurish and “forced”.”
I have that book too, got it when it 1st was published & you’re right, Peary’s opinion holds up. He also called Pt II “trite” & I think he’s right about that as well: Party, family business, massacre. There is quite a lot added in, expanding the Corleone family’s power in American biz, Hyman Roth is a great character, as is Frankie Pentangelli, to make the story a bit more unique but …
I think that the biggest reason it’s so highly praised is because of the telling of Vito’s backstory, which was excellently done. But when you discount those scenes, it’s really just a fancier retread of the 1st film, which was superior.
BTW, has anyone ever read the novel? GREAT GREAT GREAT story, made a great movie didn’t it? BUT it’s also one of the worst examples of English language writing ever published! Puzo’s prose is painful!!
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What is the strangest movie that you've ever seen over 2 years ago
I tried watching El Topo but just couldn’t understand any of it. Just came off as a disjointed & disconnected series of images w/no purpose, even a surreal one.
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Great films with terrible acting? over 2 years ago
Coppola’s version of Dracula!!!! Reeves, Ryder & even Hopkins were all deplorably bad. Great visuals, some scary moments but the acting is sooooooo damn bad I can’t watch the movie!!
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Films leaving a big smile on your face over 2 years ago
Most recently, ZOMBIELAND!!! Made me laugh the entire time!
Shaun of the Dead & Hot Fuzz, ditto!
Fight Club
The Big Lebowski
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Last movie you saw and rate it over 2 years ago
Wages of Fear, one of my favr classic films!! Some of the greatest tension ever caught on film! Liked it so much I bought the Criterion ed.
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Last movie you saw and rate it over 2 years ago
Just watched Zombi last night, the unofficial sequel to the orig Dawn of the Dead. 5/10.
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stupidest things ever said in a movie over 2 years ago
Well, as long as we’re on the topic if Flop Gun, how ’bout: “I feel the need, the need for speed!” (I could never watch that film w/out turning it off in disgust aft about 10 mins, surprised I lasted THAT long!!)
I actually thought the opening line of 28 Days Later above was a good one, adds to the ominous tone of the film…
Titanic’s also loaded w/inane, cliched dialog like: “Rose, this is where we first met!!” or "sooner or later that fire that I love about you, Rose… that fire’s gonna burn out… " After seeing Avatar recently, admittedly a VERY entertaining & visually stunning film, I wish that Cameron would get off his high horse & hire a writer like Kasdan, Koepp, or Zaillian to punch up his scripts or write better dialog.
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Last movie you saw and rate it over 2 years ago
Saw Shutter Isle last weekend, 7/10. Much more enjoyable than either The Aviator or The Departed.
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stupidest things ever said in a movie almost 2 years ago
“We gotta get outta here!”
Only slightly behind that is “We gotta situation here…”
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stupidest things ever said in a movie almost 2 years ago
The other line I wanted to vomit over after Op Prime said “ebay” was when he said “My bad…” I HATE HATE HATE that euphemism to begin with but this time they really went overboard in their panderance. GLUH!!!
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stupidest things ever said in a movie almost 2 years ago
Micky_ward: SHAME ON THEE!! It’s “Hail to the king, BABY!” %-)
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