am I right fellas?
the majority of men in mumblecore are passive neutered characters. they are unkempt. portrayed as clueless and child-like. OTOH the women are seen as these progressive emotionally deep vegans. it is the women that take the lead in relationships for the man is hurrr durr emotionally stunted. women have these really artsy/chic jobs while the guy is usually unemployed (jeff, who lives at home).
your sister’s sister: a lesbian pokes holes into a condom, gets a guy drunk, has sex with him with the intention of getting pregnant with his baby and never telling him. how does the film end? with the guy apologizing for being hurr durr emotionally stunted and then all 3 hugging. I’m pretty sure what she did was a crime.
hipsters in general are a pretty feminized bunch.
this is gonna go so well
Well considering the majority of the films written in the ‘mumblecore’ world are by men, no you’re not right. You’re using one film as an example to back up you’re ridiculous claim.
by that same token, would you assert that women can’t/don’t make misogynist films?
Let’s say your opening post is right. So what?
What’s your problem Mogambo? Does your wife/mother beat you?
I hate getting personal but I have no other way to respond to these ridiculous revenge threads anymore. I am sick of people who want sympathy for themselves and think they(and their kind) are being exploited when it’s obvious that there is nothing even remotely similar happening in their lives. That is why I raise my question.
I don’t want my son exposed to negative stereotypes of men. I think mumblecore films can be great. just the misandry sucks.
lena dunham is another director guilty of misandry.
" I am sick of people who want sympathy for themselves and think they(and their kind) are being exploited when it’s obvious that there is nothing even remotely similar happening in their lives."
So am i, that’s why i hate most middle class feminists that live in the Anglosphere.
Mogambo, i don’t watch a lot of mumblecore, but i’d be more concerned about the fact that this appears to be the M.O for most American family sitcoms, sans the artistic bent.
Kevin Smith movies often follow this formula too. The women are portrayed as wise and knowing, while the men are just emotional idiots. Apattow is pretty much the same.
I am sick of people who want sympathy for themselves and think they(and their kind) are being exploited when it’s obvious that there is nothing even remotely similar happening in their lives.
I can’t discuss something that I am not experiencing?
So what? A lot of women in film are passive, neutered characters. What the fuck is this topic?
^Forf, i think Mogambo’s point is that we tend to make a big deal about the fact that women are presented as ‘passive’ and ‘neutered’, yet people rarely blink an eye about the way men are often presented negatively.
MOGAMBO: it makes sense that mumblecore guys are presented this way. Have you met the kind of men that identify with these films?
on another forum I frequent, a poster made a really great point about how the political correctness has tipped the scale towards women (sitcoms). back in the day…you know that ‘bang zoom to the moon’ schtick was a equalizer to the … female antics. so the female character could do some infuriating shit, or make some wise ass comment and the male would come back with the whole verbal assault/threat of violence. but now we can’t have male characters being mean to women on tv anymore. so it’s like the women can be know-it-alls without anyone there to play off of and kind of equalize things.
This thread just went nuclear…
I mean really, what difference does it make? I was responding to you generalization of a particular kind of film. These films under the mumblecore word (a word made up to describe one film btw) are portraits/commentaries of people of a certain age, typically post grad mid 20’s. the two films you’ve mentioned do not accurately represent your assertion and couldn’t be further from the types of films that are categorized as mumblecore.
People hate women, people hate men. I hate everyone so I’m the wrong person to really answer these questions.
" I hate everyone so I’m the wrong person to really answer these questions."
at least your consistent.
not in mumblecore they aren’t.
to take the example I set out in the thread title:
so the mark dupplass character is clearly depressed/angry/has mental issues. for a year he’s been sleep walking through life. a year. it takes the emily blunt character suggesting for him to take a trip into nature to realize that he has issues. otherwise, without the emotionally deep female character, we are to presume the guy would just remain in a state of depression. in other words men need emotional guidance from women. it is the women that are portrayed as the take action, forward thinking characters.
Apattow is pretty much the same.
o indeed. women are the entrepreneurs in Judd’s world. men are the emotionally stunted man childs that NEED women to guide them.
These films under the mumblecore word (a word made up to describe one film btw) are portraits/commentaries of people of a certain age, typically post grad mid 20’s.
using this logic, there should be no criticism of a film when it comes to things such as sexism, racism, ageism, etc.
and I concur with that mode of thinking.
my point is made.
There are several examples of ‘mumblecore’ films that act against everything you’re talking about. Andrew Bujalski’s Beeswax and Funny HaHa. Frank Ross’ Present Company and Tiger Tail on Blue.
there is nothing more intellectually depressing than the internet-enabled musings of anti-feminist men
This is going to be just as bad as that Bond thread.
Why do you care? I wouldn’t care if some woman made a movie about chopping guys dicks off. Why do people get so offended by this stuff? You don’t want your son to see it, don’t show him.
there is nothing more completely revolting than an anti-feminist man
You’re wrong: that sentence is more revolting.
Bond is going to start raping everyone.
Bond is going to start raping the men in mumblecore movies.
@ john pastuch
beat you to it
Don’t worry. Your son will always be exposed to more misogyny than misandry both at home and in popular culture unless you decide to exclusively show him mumblecore films with misandry in them.
I am sorry but don’t you feel ashamed of your own intelligence for making such statements?
I wouldn’t mind a mature discussion but not the type that you indulge in.
quoting this again because I think there is a lot to your observation.
it could be said that my impression that mumblecore is misandrist stems from the fact that the gap in pay and education is more equal than it has ever been in the past. so women expect more from men when in reality things aren’t what they used to be. this results in filmmakers magnifying this discord between the sexes. so feminist have fought for equality, and when it is closer to being achieved, there arises a difference between past expectations and current realities. I’ll just throw in the word socioeconomics here.
“so women expect more from men when in reality things aren’t what they used to be”
yes, despite their independence, women are still looking for men that can offer them surplus of some kind, and then complain that we aren’t ‘keeping up’. It’s not a coincidence that there are so many articles posted about how men need to ‘man up’, or ‘step up their game’ because women expect us to be a certain way. It’s as if men don’t have any needs or desires of their own.
What most women don’t seem to realise is that the man child they so often complain about is an indirect by-product of feminism. They can’t see this for two major reasons: 1)They are entitled and self absorbed, and have been raised to think that men exist to serve their own interests in the reconstructed patriarchy. 2) they misunderstood man’s role in the ‘old society’: they saw unlimited freedom instead of responsibility. But now that the social obligation for men to raise a family has been removed, more men are going to ‘go their own way’, scale down their lifestyle, and just live for themselves.
I think this is a fantastic development personally, and we have the old feminists to thank.
EDIT: These criticisms are only directed at women that have the same entitlement mentality. If you don’t have it, then i’m not talking about you.
They’ll hang you for this, Joks.
the implications of the phrase “adjustment period” seem to be lost on a lot of people.
society exists in a constant state of transformation. deep social change is typically gradual and has no endpoint toward which it strives. while an idea can be articulated and spread quickly, the resulting social changes take time, generations, maybe even millennia.
feminism articulated certain principles and goals in response to the world as it once existed. the world responded to that impetus in various ways, some envisioned by feminists, some not. over time, both feminism and the world changed. we now find ourselves in a world that has been altered by the presence of feminist thinking, mostly for the better in my estimation. human society, however, has not fully caught up to the implications of the change. our underlying sense of what men, women and families are and “should be” are based on extremely deep-rooted cultural constructions.
so sure, there’s often conflict between our progressive post-feminist pieties about the “new” social roles of men and women and the ideas encoded in us by the sort of deep culture that persists for centuries. to say nothing of biological differences between the sexes, whatever we make of that can of worms. and yes, “misandry”, lacking any mechanism by which to inflict real institutional oppression, is sensibly treated as less harmful than misogyny. these imbalances are worth discussing, but they don’t justify arrogant, divisive, and reductive generalizations like “[most women] are entitled and self absorbed, and have been raised to think that men exist to serve their own interests” and “they misunderstood man’s role in the ‘old society’: they saw unlimited freedom instead of responsibility.”
characterizations of that sort are neither thoughtful nor constructive. they reek of bitterness and partisan oversimplification, the belligerent choosing of sides.